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Quote# 80974

God is a higher authority than man. Believers ought to be the best citizens in the country. However, they should never do anything the government condones that is illegal, immoral or contrary to the faith of the Word of God.

Government should stay out of the Lord’s work. Thomas Jefferson said there should be a one—way wall of separation between church and state. Faith should influence government and morals but the state should stay out of the business of the church.

Soon there may be “hate crime” laws on the books forbidding “mean” or “hateful rhetoric” against certain issues. Many preachers face the very real possibility of being forbidden by the government to preach against what they honestly believe is sinful. The preachers will have to disobey the government and obey God at that time no matter what the price.

Art Kohl, Faith Bible Baptist Church 74 Comments [4/29/2011 3:19:54 AM]
Fundie Index: 83
WTF?! || meh
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nutbunny

The preachers will have to disobey the government and obey God at that time no matter what the price.

i.e. the persecution of others

4/29/2011 3:33:36 AM

Hades

Please show me where Jefferson ever said that it was a one-way wall.

4/29/2011 3:35:07 AM

toth

A one-way wall. The first of its kind in the history of the universe.

4/29/2011 3:37:12 AM

Hades

Double comment for some reason O_o

4/29/2011 3:38:25 AM

The_L

Hate to tell you this, sweetheart, but there is no such thing as a one-way wall. And until you can prove that there are walls that people can walk through in one direction but not the other (actual WALLS, not turnstiles or revolving doors), you are not allowed to use wall-based analogies.

Well, technically we can't stop you from using them, but we can assure you that you won't be taken seriously.

As for the hate laws you love to talk about--Fred Phelps has had his right to spew vile hatespeech UPHELD by the Supreme Court. Which means that if you're afraid of your actions being prosecuted, you are planning to outdo Fred Phelps.

4/29/2011 3:47:08 AM

CohibaMan

Is this the same Thomas Jefferson who wrote, "The clergy, by getting themselves established by law and ingrafted into the machine of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and religious rights of man" to Jeremiah Moore in 1800 and, "In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire wealth and power by this combination than by deserving them, and to effect this, they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer for their purposes" to Horatio Spofford in 1814?

George Washington thinks you're talking out of your ass.

4/29/2011 4:33:34 AM

Jezebel's Evil Sister

That's NOT how Jefferson worked.

4/29/2011 4:39:50 AM

WMDKitty

Doesn't the bible say something along the lines of "follow the laws the government sets"?

4/29/2011 4:44:03 AM

Doctor Whom

@WMDKitty

Doesn't the bible say something along the lines of "follow the laws the government sets"?

He even quotes those Bible passages. But, as is so often the case, God's will depends on which Bible verses you cherry-pick in any context.

4/29/2011 4:47:45 AM

Horus IX

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802

Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814



OWNED BY THOMAS JEFFERSON'S OWN WORDS!

4/29/2011 4:56:25 AM

Philbert McAdamia

>> there should be a one—way wall of separation between church and state. <<

Buncha one-way motherfuckers.

4/29/2011 5:01:05 AM

Raised by Horses

"God is a higher authority than man."

Prove God. The rest of your inane drivel will be summarily ignored until you do.

We're waiting.

4/29/2011 5:10:08 AM

Pule Thamex

So it's not enough for preachers to convey the unadorned word of God to the masses. The preacher has to decorate God's plain holy word with the curlicues of meanness and the arcing streamers of spiteful hatred. Obviously, God's word is insufficient to stir His humble servants into a rabid frenzy unless they be accompanied by a suitably belligerent stance and rhetorical spin.

Is this because the preachers consider the masses to be particularly susceptible to a canting approach that is tantamount to persecution? Is God's glory best recounted in angry, threatening terms? Does the preacher most clearly display righteousness by ranting like a deranged moron? Are all these shenanigans an obvious attempt to feed a slavering emotional hunger, an attempt to alleviate the bitter, wasted feelings of being unloved and alone, an attempt to quell a desperate self-loathing, and an expression of mounting fear for the future and of death itself?

4/29/2011 5:22:27 AM

Mister Spak

"God is a higher authority than man. Believers ought to be the best citizens in the country. However, they should never do anything the government condones that is illegal, immoral or contrary to the faith of the Word of God. "

That's why Islam should rule this country.

"Thomas Jefferson said there should be a one—way wall of separation between church and state."

At least he admits there is a wall, even if he got it wrong.

4/29/2011 5:31:42 AM

Hasher

One-way wall!? What the unholy fuck?!

4/29/2011 5:35:46 AM

Areze

Fundie, but in that yawn-inducingly typical way.

Can't we get some of the old extra-strength crazy back? Like Navaros or Supersport?

4/29/2011 5:43:14 AM

TGRwulf

"Thomas Jefferson said there should be a one—way wall of separation between church and state."

Um, no, that's just, um, completely wrong.

4/29/2011 5:48:03 AM

Zeus Almighty

"One-way wall?"
Art, don't you assholes say that people go to hell for lying?

4/29/2011 5:56:25 AM

Stick Boy

"...they should never do anything the government condones that is illegal, immoral or contrary to the faith of the Word of God."

Um, no - if the government condones it, it is NOT illegal, it may be immoral by your standards, and it depends on which god's word you think it may be contrary to.


4/29/2011 6:00:04 AM

dionysus

Thomas Jefferson said there should be a one—way wall of separation between church and state.

Thomas Jefferson said no such thing you lying fuck and try as I might I can't imagine what a one-way wall would even look like. In fact, I'm pretty certain that it's impossible.

Faith should influence government and morals

Faith? Faith?!? What fucking purpose does "I just believe so even without any evidence" serve in government besides getting us into stupid wars because we believe we're some kind of mission from god or believe that they were developing weapons of mass destruction.

Soon there may be “hate crime” laws on the books forbidding “mean” or “hateful rhetoric” against certain issues. Many preachers face the very real possibility of being forbidden by the government to preach against what they honestly believe is sinful. The preachers will have to disobey the government and obey God at that time no matter what the price.

So your god only cares about spreading his hate against his own creations and doesn't care that his own flock will (according to this persecution masturbation fantasy anyway) be penalized for it? What a dick! And doesn't this moron of a god have other, better things to do with his time than hate people? Shouldn't he be, I don't know, feeding Africa or eliminating malaria?

4/29/2011 6:06:22 AM

KittyKaboom

Thomas Jefferson said there should be a one—way wall of separation between church and state. Faith should influence government and morals but the state should stay out of the business of the church.

The same Thomas Jefferson who said that christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man?

Doesn't historical revisionism make baby Jesus cry?

4/29/2011 6:09:58 AM

breakerslion

"Thomas Jefferson said there should be a one—way wall of separation between church and state."

Ninth Commandment Fail. Go to Hell.

4/29/2011 6:20:38 AM

aaa

Great job at proving that you can't shit out a convincing lie.

4/29/2011 6:37:20 AM

Horsefeathers

"However, they should never do anything the government condones that is illegal, immoral or contrary to the faith of the Word of God."

Governments are put into place explicitly by your omniscient god. Thus, nothing they do can be "illegal, immoral or contrary to the faith of the Word of God."

Try reading your Wholly Babble once in a while. Specifically Romans.

"Government should stay out of the Lord’s work."

As I pointed out above, governments were put in place by your god. They are there to do "the Lord's work" and you are to obey them.

"Thomas Jefferson said there should be a one—way wall of separation between church and state."

I've seen this claim before. What I haven't seen is an explanation of what the holy fuck a "one way wall" is supposed to be.

"Faith should influence government and morals but the state should stay out of the business of the church."

Jefferson said nothing of the kind and would smack you in the chops for saying he did, if he could.

"Soon there may be “hate crime” laws on the books forbidding “mean” or “hateful rhetoric” against certain issues."

You cannot have a hate crime against an issue you dolt. You can say anything you'd like about the issue. The problem comes when jackasses such as yourself want to go calling for violence/death against people who hold opinions on that issue different from yours.

"Many preachers face the very real possibility of being forbidden by the government to preach against what they honestly believe is sinful."

Preach all you like about the topic but not the people. Why is this so hard to understand?

"The preachers will have to disobey the government and obey God at that time no matter what the price."

You can't do this. Read Romans as I suggested. Obeying the government is tantamount to obeying god.

4/29/2011 6:45:08 AM

Doubting Thomas

Believers ought to be the best citizens in the country.

Never seems to be the case, though, right?

Thomas Jefferson said there should be a one—way wall of separation between church and state. Faith should influence government and morals but the state should stay out of the business of the church.

Close, but not quite. Jefferson was clear that he didn't want religion interfering with government or the other way around. There's no such thing as a "one-way" wall of separation.

Many preachers face the very real possibility of being forbidden by the government to preach against what they honestly believe is sinful.

You just don't understand the U.S. Constitution at all, do you? I bet you're one of those idiots who think that the Establishment Clause means that the government can't favor one denomination of Christianity over another.

4/29/2011 6:53:56 AM
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