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Quote# 80974

God is a higher authority than man. Believers ought to be the best citizens in the country. However, they should never do anything the government condones that is illegal, immoral or contrary to the faith of the Word of God.

Government should stay out of the Lord’s work. Thomas Jefferson said there should be a one—way wall of separation between church and state. Faith should influence government and morals but the state should stay out of the business of the church.

Soon there may be “hate crime” laws on the books forbidding “mean” or “hateful rhetoric” against certain issues. Many preachers face the very real possibility of being forbidden by the government to preach against what they honestly believe is sinful. The preachers will have to disobey the government and obey God at that time no matter what the price.

Art Kohl, Faith Bible Baptist Church 74 Comments [4/29/2011 3:19:54 AM]
Fundie Index: 84
WTF?! || meh
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Alencon

For the 8,632nd time. The hate crimes law specifically exempts “expressive conduct” and “activities protected by the constitution.”

No law can trump the Constitution you idiot.

4/29/2011 7:57:44 PM

emau99

Thomas Jefferson said there should be a one—way wall of separation between church and state.

He most certainly did not.

4/29/2011 7:58:47 PM

Brain_In_A_Jar

However, they should never do anything the government condones that is illegal

Que?

4/29/2011 8:45:36 PM

The Jamo

A one-way wall? Dude, this is NOT a video game : )

4/29/2011 10:09:50 PM

Panz

For fuck sakes, hate crime laws are not to persecute religion, they're to protect everyone that has crime one to them based on hate for any given reason, they even protect you you dumb fucking retard

4/29/2011 10:45:22 PM

buff114

ug, I am so sick of this magical one way wall bullshit. I just want to kill myself. These people are so backwards I honestly dont think they are human. They HAVE to be from another fucking planet.

4/30/2011 12:18:24 AM

JSS

What in the heck is a one-way wall?

Ah, I see. Just some fundies making up absurd terms and concepts to promote their beliefs as laws and government policy. Nothing new and I'm not surprised. Next thing you know they'll have the nerve to start crying... oh wait they're doing that too.

4/30/2011 6:10:19 AM

czechmate

Iran and Suadi Arabia being shining examples of this.
Could try Honduras and Nicuragua which are ran by the dictates of the Vatican.
Having survived the Nazis and Stalin, I would sooner live under those regimes than a Theocracy.

4/30/2011 9:19:08 AM



One-way?

I haven't seen that part of the letter....

4/30/2011 12:53:01 PM

Papabear

"God is a higher authority than man."

Incorrect premise. Start again.

4/30/2011 1:11:44 PM

Adrian

I'm sorely tempted to use Art as an one-way wall detector... (IE throw him at walls until he manages to pass through one)

4/30/2011 3:16:26 PM

Brianisha

Believers ought to be the best citizens in the country.

Yeah the more devout the believer, the more likely someone will find them on death row for a crime they did commit. Which reminds me, if I tried to get special privledges as a Polytheistic Pagan, you crazy christians would jeer at me. So what makes your religion so special other than it has some Jesus guy? Attis, Horus and Dionysius didnt suffer for nothin ya know.


@czechmate I dont know how aware you are, but Hitler and Stalin were both christian.

4/30/2011 4:25:19 PM

TheJebusFire

"...they should never do anything the government condones that is illegal..."

If the government condones it then it's not illegal.

"Government should stay out of the Lord’s work. "

And Christians should stay out of the government's work.

"Many preachers face the very real possibility of being forbidden by the government to preach against what they honestly believe is sinful. "

Stop bitching. If Fred Phelps can preach his hate, so can the rest of you.

4/30/2011 8:03:26 PM

JT

It's not possible for religion to influence government and not the other way around. I'll give you an example.
Take Action X. Baptists oppose X. X does not involve force or fraud, but Baptists believe it to be immoral. They influence the government to outlaw X. Mennonites, on the other hand, believe that X is obligatory in their faith. The government has outlawed X, and therefore, has interfered in the business of the Mennonite church. Jefferson of course, never said it was a one way wall.

5/1/2011 9:01:33 AM

Giveitaday

God is a higher authority than man

Our laws and our people are not, and rightly should not be, subject to the dictates of your deity, or anyone else for that matter. If a person chooses, of their own accord, to subborn themselves to the whims of their chosen deity, provided that by doing so violates no secular law or the ennumerated rights of their fellow citizens that's fine, but the laws of our country should not ever be subverted and twisted into the service of imposing sectarian religion on anyone.

Believers ought to be the best citizens in the country.

And yet they are not.

However, they should never do anything the government condones that is illegal, immoral or contrary to the faith of the Word of God.

That's fine, provided you don't violate the laws of the US in doing so. Of course that means no killing gays, non christians, disobidient children, people who attempt to convert you, fornicators, adulterers, etc. All things command by your "god".

Government should stay out of the Lord’s work.

Yes it should, and religion should stay out of government work and refrain from it's attempts to influence policy, especially in such a manner as to set themselves up as a privledged class or to disenfranchise those who do not adhere to it's beliefs.

Thomas Jefferson said there should be a one—way wall of separation between church and state. Faith should influence government and morals but the state should stay out of the business of the church.

There one problem with that quote, namely that it's a damned lie! Jefferson never said or implied anything about a "one—way wall of separation". Moreover, under the 1st Ammendment such a thing isn't even possible. Freedom of religion requires freedom from religion because different denominations and religions all have varied and contradictory views on the place of religion in and on government and the influence by one will almost certainly offensive to another. State and church seperation has to go both ways, if not then the religious denomination or sect with the greatest representation in, or influence over, the state will become the state church by default.

Soon there may be “hate crime” laws on the books forbidding “mean” or “hateful rhetoric” against certain issues. Many preachers face the very real possibility of being forbidden by the government to preach against what they honestly believe is sinful.

Bullshit. This is nothing more than fear mongering to the lowest common denominator. Every single "hate crime" law that has been proposed [i]has contained specific and blanket exemptions for religious speech." Every. Single. One. To claim otherwise is an outright and willful lie.

5/1/2011 9:23:48 AM

Shadoboy

Way to twist the words of the founding fathers.

5/3/2011 8:33:12 AM

Freak123

"God is a higher authority than man."

Call me crazy, but I view people, who actually exist, as higher authority than an invisible person you claim is real. Bat-shit crazy thought process I have, right?

5/3/2011 10:59:36 AM



I prefer the render to Caesar stuff. It's absolutely fair and consequent. And it's said by God himself, what else can we ask for?

5/4/2011 4:04:11 AM

Anon-e-moose

@The Jamo

"A one-way wall? Dude, this is NOT a video game : ) "

Art here thinks the cheat code 'Noclip' applies to reality too.

I love playing "DOOM III", "Quake IV" and "Prey" as much as the next gamer. But when playing such games starts affecting your thinking like this, it's not healthy, Art.

5/4/2011 9:39:50 AM

M

Jefferson said no such thing. He was one of the earliest secularists in the world and he wasn't even a christian, and whilst he supported teh freedom of people to believe whatever they wanted (given that it neither picked his pocket or broke his legs) he personally looked down on supernatural idea's and in fact wrote a version of the bible with all the supernatural things removed (Which much have been a thin book).

Also a ONE WAY wall? You know quoting Dubya (I think Dubya was the one who talked about a one way wall, and given his obvious lack of anything remotely resembling intellect it'd be no surprise) really doesn't make you look very smart.

But eh... fucktards would quote other fucktards.

7/4/2011 7:10:31 AM

Quantum Mechanic

"a one—way wall"

Lie much?

9/6/2012 11:19:05 AM

Sasha

I feel sorry for the members of Faith Bible Baptist Church. They're being lied to by a scam artist.

9/6/2012 2:41:05 PM

Filin De Blanc

" The preachers will have to disobey the government and obey God at that time no matter what the price."

According to the Bible, all leaders are ordained by God, but I guess that's one of the bits of the Bible that only applies when it's convenient.

9/6/2012 2:56:53 PM

Ebon

Thomas Jefferson said there should be a one—way wall of separation between church and state

You are a lying sack of shit.

10/14/2012 11:09:00 PM
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