Quote# 81177

[re: Pastor arrested for preaching the Bible to people standing in a DMV line.]

The whole thing is wrong. First of all, the man wasn't preaching, he was reading. Second, there was no "captive audience"; as none of the people standing in line had to keep standing there. They were free to leave or ignore the man reading.

Also, notice how the police officer, upon initial arrival, goes directly to the man reading and tells him he's under arrest. The policeman didn't observe to see if the man was preaching or not. The policeman didn't ask him if he had been preaching and asked to leave.

John81, Online Baptist 90 Comments [5/12/2011 4:37:24 AM]
Fundie Index: 49

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No, you can't leave the DMV line. I bet the guy knew it, too.

5/12/2011 4:46:13 AM


"The policeman didn't ask him if he had been preaching and asked to leave."

Yes, because we should always ask criminals if they're committing a crime before arresting them?

*Bank Robber robbing a bank*
Police: Sir, are you robbing this bank?
Robber: No.
Police: Ok, carry on then.

5/12/2011 4:51:58 AM

Wouldn't the easier thing be to ignore him?

All this does is give fundies ammo for their persecution guns.

5/12/2011 4:56:37 AM

The Renegade

The pastor was just trying to free the people from the boredom of the DMV line, which he mistook for the torments of hell. It's a fairly easy mistake to make. He was making their experience all the more hellish, but still.

5/12/2011 4:59:34 AM


We're probably not getting all of the details here but as it stands this sounds like a violation of the right to free speech. Sure, having a pastor read a bunch of lines of scripture you've heard 1,000,000 times is annoying especially if you're in line at the DMV which is also annoying but being annoying isn't a legitimate reason to arrest someone. Does anybody know what I'm missing here and why this is a crime?

5/12/2011 5:00:04 AM

Mister Spak

Would it be OK if the man was preaching-er-reading from the koran?

5/12/2011 5:03:30 AM

Pule Thamex

When will you deluded twerps realize that not everyone wants to listen to your deranged nonsense? Ernest and well-meaning you may be, or more likely you're brainwashed to such a degree that you think reciting biblical piffle is disseminating the great wisdom and teachings of a rarefied holy screed. Of course, it's mostly the insane ramblings of murderous ancients. And the reality is you look like a pathetic junkie drugged-up on Jesus and God and mad tales of mayhem and evil.When will you admit that the Black Book Of Death is the tool of an immensely evil death cult? When will you admit that neither God nor Jesus exist but were invented to try and justify evil?

5/12/2011 5:04:41 AM

@ dionysus

Apparently this is the law he broke. Seems reasonable to ask him to leave if he is annoying other patrons. He wasn't arrested because of the content of his "reading", but for the fact he was doing it at all. It's being spun by Christians as an example of persecution, but he was being a nuisance in a public building and there were consequences.

5/12/2011 5:09:31 AM


I would probably have tried telling him to leave first too, but all the other excuses are crap.
Harrassing people isn't magically not harrassing just because someone is reciting from a book, and "it's up to them not to be standing there HA!" is just foul. If they punch their girlfriend in the face, do they go the "it's her fault for putting her face in front of my fist" way?

5/12/2011 5:16:42 AM


If this "Pastor" has a church, is there someone in the neighborhood who could drop in on Sunday and hand out license renewal forms and vehicle registration forms during the "service"? If that doesn't work, hit him with a cluebat.

5/12/2011 5:22:01 AM

This is pretty harmless as far as it goes. The guy shouldn't have been doing it, sure, but tbh I can't see why the policeman couldn't have just told him "excuse me, sir, I'm going to have to ask you to leave" or something before arresting him.

Not really very fundie, just a few misunderstandings of the law in question and some pedanticism ("preaching" and "reading"? Seriously?).

5/12/2011 5:28:41 AM


They were free to leave or ignore the man reading.

That's like saying somebody should be allowed to park his car on home plate at Yankee Stadium because people are free to go to the Mets game.

5/12/2011 5:31:45 AM


You are aware that the DMV is a state government institution?

5/12/2011 5:33:03 AM


If you leave, you'll lose your place in the queue. That is basically a captive audience

5/12/2011 5:39:50 AM

The Jamo

@ dionysus

Hey, I was actually thinking the same thing. But believe it or not, I've heard [unconfirmed] reports that a similar thing has happened here, in Australia, to a man who was "preaching without permit". He was doing it on a street corner and they arrested him. Now, I personally don't really care for being told that I'm a sinner and will go to hell, but I fail to see how that's a crime. If they want to do it then they should do it. No one is paying attention to these wackos anyway.

5/12/2011 5:44:45 AM

If you leave, you'll lose your place in the queue. That is basically a captive audience.
This, and the fact that whatever it is you're doing at the DMV is quite likely to be something that needs done then and right then, like getting new license plates or renewing your driver's license.

5/12/2011 5:53:08 AM

Raised by Horses

"Because it's a big stupid jellyfish!"

(Thumbs up to those who get this reference).

5/12/2011 5:54:33 AM



Ah, I see. Thank you for the information! And that makes sense especially if he was being loud, preventing the workers from doing their jobs.

@The Jamo

If anything, them constantly annoying people will turn people OFF of their religion. I know that I get really irritated with and thus less likely to buy from a pushy, obnoxious salesman and the same thing happens with people that try to sell their religion (especially since I'm not in the market for one). As the saying goes, give 'em enough rope and they'll hang themselves.


And usually people will take a trip there during their lunch break so they don't have the time to leave. It's not like they can tell their boss "Ummm, ma'am, I need an extra hour of lunch time because some guy was annoying me and I had to leave the DMV until he left.".


That's not accurate. Government EMPLOYEES can't be preaching on state property (at least while they're on duty) and the government itself can't preach but some random pastor can preach all he likes on state property. You can find a random street corner and so long as you're not stalking people or (as seems to be the case here) disrupting business you can talk about Jesus or Mohammad or Thor all you like. There is no prohibition (as far as I'm aware) against citizens expressing their religious views in public.

5/12/2011 5:54:49 AM


I'll remember that next time you're in line waiting to do something and start "reading" the quran.


"Violation of free speech"

No it's not, the DMV is state property, thus religion is barred from it.


He was asked to leave

5/12/2011 6:03:50 AM


I saw the video. Looked to me like an arranged arrest. Protesters do it here all the time. Arrests are pre-arranged with the police knowing the names of those volunteering to be arrested.

5/12/2011 6:08:27 AM

Doubting Thomas

I don't know anything of the incident in question, but I'm guessing it went something like this: Fundie preacher thinks it would be a great idea to try to make converts by preaching to a captive audience at the DMV. So he reads bible verses and tells them that they're evil people who are going to hell if they don't accept Jesus as their lord & savior. People get annoyed, supervisor asks him to leave, he refuses. Police are called and take the man into custody after he refuses to move on. Christians claim persecution, and claim that if he were a Muslim reading from the Koran then he wouldn't have been arrested.

5/12/2011 6:09:40 AM


Of course if I went in there and started telling everyone in line that there is no invisible man in the sky I am sure that it would have been perfectly fine for me to be taken away.

5/12/2011 6:36:03 AM

Deep Search

I'm pretty sure that reading from a bible counts as preaching. And it was taking place in a government building. I'm sure people would be pissed about it. I mean, they were at the DMV so they'd be pissed to start with.

You only go there when you need shit. People aren't standing in line because they want some popcorn and Twizzlers, ffs.

5/12/2011 6:45:58 AM


NEWSFLASH! He most likely would have been arrested for refusing to stop singing "King Henry the Eighth" as well.

5/12/2011 7:01:47 AM


He wasn't arrested for preaching. He was arrested for disturbing the peace, which is what he was doing.

5/12/2011 7:06:22 AM

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