It has been scientific proven that the molecular structure of water changes when it is prayed over. It’s structure becomes more organized and symmetric. Even if you don’t believe in the use of Holy Water the fact that the body is mostly water proves that prayer does have a positive effect on the body as well.
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It has been scientific proven that the molecular structure of water changes when it is prayed over.t’s structure becomes more organized and symmetric
I don't think you know the meaning of most of the words in that sentence, Marandia.
@Diatryma :
Well, considering the number of rubes who buy into bullshit (bullpiss?) like homeopathy or prayer...
(on a side note, your screen-name brought to my mind images of terrified fundies hunted by terror birds :P)
You mean like in those bullshit snowflake photos those "special water" salesmen show people?
To be fair, the sound of prayer probably could have some effect on formation of water crystals. Doesn't matter since the water in our body is liquid anyway.
As an engineer who has actually, you know, studied chemistry, please allow me to say...
BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...
You fail forever.
Marandia's wackiness knows no bounds...
Crown, I listened to a lecture a few years back about a study that was done on food. They used the same meals made from the same ingredients. Two were prepared by a loving mom for her family, two were made by an indifferent chief, and two were made by an agitated worker. They did this over and over with lots of different people and found that the same meal from the same ingredients was significantly nutritionally different depending on the emotional state of the person preparing it. More than that they found that the recipients body was able to much greater utilize the nutrients available once the meals had been prayed over. They found that the moms’ meals had the highest nutrition value, the most symmetric molecular structure, and the recipients bodies absorbed the most nutrients from it of the 3 unsprayed for controls. The chiefs’ meals were much less beneficial to the body and the meals made by the agitated workers actually cause detrimental effects to the body. Very little nutrition was absorbed from it at all and it caused an explosion of free radicals to be released in the body. In all cases the meals were prayed over and in all cases the meals ability to be used by the body improved. But the meal prepared with love and then prayed over was so much more beneficial to the body then the others that the scientist concluded, if they could find out why it could cut our food intake by 2/3. It was a very interesting lecture to say the least.
(emphasis mine)
But here's the best part...
I just thought it was refreshing to hear a group of scientist admit that they were not almightily. They didn’t dare come out and say it but they implied that the study had showed them something they could not understand. They were going to have to live with the knowledge that they had observed something unexplainable and uncontrollable. That’s what I enjoyed about the lecture most.
Marandia, your true agenda/schadenfreude is showing again.
How can two hydrogen and one oxygen atom linked get much more symmetrical? Does the alignment straighten out or something (Wouldn't that provide a testable difference in water conductivity?
Some actual evidence, please!
It's been proven that bashing your head against a wall extends your life by one year per head bash.
So even if you don't believe in Bashology, it does have a positive affect on ones lifespan.
I weep. I POSITIVELY WEEP! Why do such stupid people exist?! WHYYYYYYYYY?!
And now, to let loose a Cluster F Bomb:
Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck!
WHY CAN'T PEOPLE EVER BE RATIONAL ANYMORE?! I THINK I'M GOING TO LOSE IT; MY FAITH IN HUMANITY HAD BEEN DANGLING BY A THREAD EVER SINCE I DISCOVERED THIS SITE, BUT THIS HAS SENT ME OVER THE EDGE! IT'S WOO AND SUPERSTITION DISTILLED INTO ITS PUREST FORM! AND IT'S QUITE POSSIBLY THE MOST IGNORANT THING I HAVE EVER HEARD IN ALL MY LIFE! IF YOU NEED ME, I'LL BE IN MY ROOM, CRYING OVER THE FACT THAT I WAS BORN IN A TIME WHEN PEOPLE ARE SO DAMN STUPID!
"It has been scientific proven that the molecular structure of water changes when it is prayed over."
O RLY?
"It’s structure becomes more organized and symmetric. Even if you don’t believe in the use of Holy Water the fact that the body is mostly water proves that prayer does have a positive effect on the body as well."
In that case, your next stop should be James Randi's JREF. If you can prove your claims, and have such tested under strict laboratory conditions, then the findings subject to rigorous peer-review, there's a cool $1 million in it for you.
So why aren't you hammering the doors of said JREF off their hinges right now?
...oh yes, that's right. Years ago, Randi subjected Homeopathy to double-blind testing under strict - and independent - scientific conditions. Whatever credibility Homeopathy had before then, was completely annihilated by Randi.
Um, in what studies has it been "scientific proven?" I'm sure the molecular structure is still H2O.
Isn't it funny when Christians try to use science to prove their religious beliefs are real?
Peer reviewed scientific study please? No? It doesn't exist?
I call bullshit.
Masaru Emoto is bunk,you know that right?
Good site explaining why that's horribly wrong...http://www.chem1.com/CQ/clusqk.html
@Brendan Rizzo: *pat.gives cookie to* It's okay. It'll all be okay.There are still rational, logical, sane people in the world...we are all just way outnumbered by the imbiciles....
Rizzo: The question is whether rational was the default in the first place for humans--or any other form of life. It tends to be a little exasperating for me when the sharp-line among the atheists speak as thought spirituality were some witting invention of deception, implying that humans started out as materialist monists. I see no reason to believe the latter.
In any case, the point is that trances probably can't wane overnight. (Although we're in trouble if life proves to be, at core, matter afflicted with irrationality...)
Fuck the water, I'd settle for an more organized sentence:
scientific (adjective)
scientifically (adverb)
When modifying a verb, please use an adverb: "It has been scientifically proven ..."
And btw, no it hasn't.
Actually, I know an atheist follower of anthroposophy who thinks water can be somehow "charged" by subjecting it to certain movements.
He's just as bananas as any religious fundmentalist.
stealing from "the secret"? or more specifically your pretty much quoting the water 'experiment' from "what the bleep do we know"? (pretty much goes hand in hand with "the secret")
or was there some other bogus experiment out there you heard of and are now shitting all over?
\Wait...
"more organized and symmetric". ???
So.... prayer makes it .... freeze?
Or, just maybe, this person has no clue how a liquid works.
No, the water molecule is always one oxygen atom and two hydrogen atoms at either end, making a 120 degree angle. That's why ice (snowflakes, frost on windows) is hexagonal. Each angle is 120 degrees, like the water molecules that make it. No praying is about to change that. Chemistry FAIL.
"It’s structure becomes more organized and symmetric."
Honey, that's called "freezing". Your "scientists" forgot to control for temperature fluctuations.
And even if your claim were true, what makes you think that the molecular change would have a positive effect on the body? Generally, your insides freezing is NOT a good thing.
Oh dear Lord, this woman claims she worked for the federal government and heard this in a lecture years ago. Oh, and wait it gets better:
"I remember the guy talking about how the results of the study were significant because they were measurable and repeatable. But they never could figure out what was causing the changes or how from an observable stand point. They likened it to a 17th century mans understanding of a pregnancy. It’s repeatable and measurable but he didn’t know the hows or whys and they couldn’t duplicate it. They said that at this point science is as far away from duplicating the results of the study as the 17th century man was from duplicating the results of a pregnancy."
That part should have been posted here too. So it's repeatable but they haven't been able to repeat it? Interesting. If this woman really ever worked for the federal government then I fear for humanity. What an idiot.
Prayer may change things, but the atomic structure of substances is not one of those things.
Someone forgot to take their sanity pills this morning.
I do so love when these retards say stuff that is so easily shown to be bullshit.
Could you produce the peer reviewed studies showing this effect? You do have peer reviewed studies, right?
(Yeah, if the "peers" are also eedjits)
Er... well, there are two Hydrogen atoms assigned to each oxygen atom, and the electrons are shared in a way that makes the water molecule part ionic and part covalent. There's not really much scope for variation. Unless the Hydrogen parts turn to Deuterium or Tritium, in which case you've got problems (namely radioactivity) and it's probably best not to drink it.
Oh yeah, I remember this. He's basing this I believe on this japanese dude's research, which noone has been able to reproduce.
I remember in college one guy trying to hold a presentation on the subject and I destroyed his arguments before he even got started. Felt kind of bad about that.
With this poster however there is no remorse.
@ Karana:
Thank you.
@ Skyknight:
When did I imply that the first people were rational empiricists? If anything, I believe the opposite of that; people were always stupid but used to be even stupider than they are now; right now the stupid know that they are going to be left by the wayside which is why they are fighting progress tooth and nail. I don't think that spirituality is a bad thing at all, actually.
@brenden
The internet tends to exaggerate the presence of certain groups of people on the earth, so take everything with a grain of salt. For example, if you judged humanity merely by the internet you would think that every tom, dick and harry is part of some hate group. You know that's not true, its just that the internet raises the profile of people who couldn't get an audience face to face.
Get a load of the thread title: 117 Russians in hospital after drinking holy water.
Apparently, prayer turns water to Paraquat. Interesting!
Also, pay attention to this next bit:
I really wish I could remember who did the study. I worked for the federal government. That meant long boring 12 to 15 hour days, most of it driving. So I’d listen to lectures to keep my mind busy. I’ve listened to thousands of lectures over the years and I just can’t recall who did that particular one. You might be able to find the study if you search the net for it. I remember the guy talking about how the results of the study were significant because they were measurable and repeatable. But they never could figure out what was causing the changes or how from an observable stand point. They likened it to a 17th century mans understanding of a pregnancy. It’s repeatable and measurable but he didn’t know the hows or whys and they couldn’t duplicate it. They said that at this point science is as far away from duplicating the results of the study as the 17th century man was from duplicating the results of a pregnancy.
I just thought it was refreshing to hear a group of scientist admit that they were not almightily. They didn’t dare come out and say it but they implied that the study had showed them something they could not understand. They were going to have to live with the knowledge that they had observed something unexplainable and uncontrollable. That’s what I enjoyed about the lecture most.
Is she sure it was a study? Is she absolutely, positively sure it was a study, and not something made up on the spot?
Edit: #1292577 beat me to it. Ah well.
You know what? I've gone out of line, on this quote's comments and especially on Tim Lahaye's quote's comments. Just know that I am never entirely serious on the Internet, but still usually mean what I say. (Contradiction in terms, ain't it?) Even so, I would like to apologize. The fundies have really put me over the edge today; I think that today's quotes had a combined stupidity level that I just couldn't handle. I am sorry for making rude and insulting comments. I am sorry for drenching all of Europe in hate and vitriol. I am sorry for succumbing to the Green-Eyed Monster. I am sorry for incorrectly describing myself as a misanthrope. I am sorry for being a total douchebag. We should all know our limits, shouldn't we? I think I overstepped mine, leading to disastrous consequences. Just disregard some things I have said today and almost immediately regretted. I am truly sorry.
As a chemical engineering student... May I borrow your quote for our happy hour gathering tomorrow, Marandia? The other students will laugh just as much as I did! It is a joke, right? You're not serious, are you?
A state of symmetry is absolute - either something is symmetrical, or it isn't. The water molecule is already symmetrical through two planes of symmetry - I suppose it could be technically be argued that the level of symmetry could be increased if there was a third plane, but, in order to create a third plane, more atoms would have to be added, in which case it would no longer be water.
There are 8 electrons in the outer orbit of the oxygen atom - as they mutually repel, this would lead to a tetrahedal distribution with an angle of 109.5° between them. Two of these pairs are involved with bonding with the two hygrogen atoms, leaving two electron pairs unbonded. The change in charge density caused by the bonding with the hydrogens disturbs the tetrahedral symmetry as compared to an unbonded oxygen atom and the angle between the hydrogen atoms is actually 104.5°.
Your claims of 'increased symmetry' is what we scientists refer to as 'complete bollocks'.
@ Brenda Rizzo: Well said, sir - but I know exactly how you feel!
@Brendan Rizzo
You're doing OK, don't regret any comments you make. I don't regret any of the comments I made on the Hrold Camping thread which were criticised. You should be able to say what you want to say if it is really your opinion.
Er, OK, now about the Caps Lock......
heh heh...
@Kamism
"It's been proven that bashing your head against a wall extends your life by one year per head bash."
I know I'll live a long life then, in fact I've extended my life by more than a decade within the last week!
"They were going to have to live with the knowledge that they had observed something unexplainable and uncontrollable. That’s what I enjoyed about the lecture most."
So basically you're into one-upmanship and you just want to see scientists stumped. Finding the truth is second to this.
@rw23
"104.5 degrees. Get that molecular structure to change by prayer and I'll be impressed"
In the manga "Ah! My Goddess", as part of her qualifying as a First Class Goddess*, Urd has to boil a glass of water without using fire (Urd's specialities are electrical and fire -based spiritual powers, along with her chemistry/alchemical-based arcane knowledge). She does so by lowering the surrounding air pressure - by manipulating air spirits, (which she knows very little about; those are Belldandy's specialities. But Urd gets the hang of it eventually). Via prayer -like incantations.
The more you know.
Now, Moronandia; once you get that 1st Class Goddess licence from Yggdrasil, you'll be able to do the same! >:D
'Mara ndia'
A thought: the demon character in "A!MG" (and the sidekick of the Leader of Hell, Hild) is 'Mara', sometimes known as 'Marller'. Who'd have thunk it?!
*- However, once she does gain her First Class powers (including the ability to shatter whole planets), she refuses, and goes back to being a Second-Class Goddess (as she was previously): as the rank of 1st Class means that it's impossible for her to lie , and the demon side of her (she came to be as the result of God screwing the Leader of Hell, Hild) can't accept that.
Oh I get it. She is correct. When you pray over water, your breath pushes against the surface causing little, symmetrical waves. It is organized in the direction of your breath. Oh yes, praise jeebus.
@NoriMori: Interesting. If this woman really ever worked for the federal government then I fear for humanity. What an idiot.
Sounds like she would fit right in in Congress. Maybe Marandia is a certain congresswoman from Minnesota in disguise?
Emoto, I guess? He was an artist, not a scientist. He hand-picked the best results.
Now go take a class in statistical rigour, then we'll talk some more.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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