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Quote# 81469

[ You’ve gone on record stating that President Barack Obama’s policy initiatives are bringing us closer to the apocalypse.]

I don’t think I’ve said that. But the fact is, he’s a committed socialist. He was educated by a socialist, he thinks like a socialist, and he surrounds himself with socialist, ultra, ultra-liberal thinkers. The problem with socialism is, not only do they not believe in God or accountability to him…

[ …You don’t think President Obama believes in God?]

I’m talking about socialism. He is a committed socialist. They’re wrong in believing in the perfectibility of man—that man is very good. That’s one of the cardinal mistakes that socialists make. The Bible says that man’s heart is desperately wicked, and he needs salvation. He needs a new heart put in him by spiritual force in calling for the name of the Lord. One thing you have to distinguish is those who claim they’re Christians, but who’ve never had an experience with Jesus. They’re usually people that hardly ever go to church, hardly ever read the Bible, but rather than be atheists or nothing, they say they’re a Christian. Well, that doesn’t make you a Christian.

[ Isn’t Barack Obama a Christian?]

I challenge you: Name one Christian who he’s appointed to public office.

[ Hillary Clinton.]

You’ve got to be kidding me. She’s a socialist. She is ultra, ultra liberal. And besides, have you ever heard of as many communists or socialists that have been appointed as tsars in our country? There are 134 of them and they’ve been appointed by this man who you claim is a Christian.


Tim Lahaye, The Daily Beast 98 Comments [5/25/2011 3:17:14 AM]
Fundie Index: 77
WTF?! || meh
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Reckoner

I challenge you: Name one Christian who he’s appointed to public office.

Francis Collins. Your move.

5/25/2011 6:03:26 PM

Liberal Christian

It's possible to be a Christian without being a conservative fundie. You guys DO NOT have a monopoly on the religion. You also don't seem to know what the words "socialist" and "ultra-liberal" mean. Also, you really should be less judgmental. You don't get to decide who is a Christian and who is not.
EDIT:
@Skatepunk:
My grandmother may have solved the riddle. When she said "no true christian would be so hateful", I asked her "what exactly IS a True Christian?" She said a True Christian follows Christ first and the bible second, and believes in love and forgiveness, like Christ.
I agree with your grandmother completely. Thanks for posting that here. :)

5/25/2011 6:30:34 PM

Raised by Horses

@Brendan Rizzo

If you think that the idea of "true" democracy originated in America, you've a pretty poor grasp of history, I'm sorry to say. As for the "standards of living" argument, watch it get demolished here.

You're right about one thing: America today is not a democracy so much as a corporatocracy. You're free to make democratic choices insofar as they impact things like what kind of food you eat, the media you consume, what sports team you support and what kind of car you drive. But did you have a say in the matter, say, the last time your country went to war? I doubt it.

5/25/2011 6:36:39 PM

TWoozl

Obama is a centrist at best, and right-leaning at that. And by Tim's bugfuck logic, socialist immediately means they aren't Christian? Wasn't there a pesky little verse about judgement, loving your neighbour, giving away your worldly things, rich man, camel, eye of a needle and similar?

...Yeah.

5/25/2011 6:38:40 PM

meltedrubbersoul

I'm amazed at what passes as "far left" and "ultra liberal" nowadays.

5/25/2011 7:30:15 PM

Mister Person

@Liberal Christian: a majority of the fundie quotes--of the Christian persuasion, anyway--which wind up getting archived here are from people who worship the bible first, and Jesus's commands second.

5/25/2011 7:47:08 PM

Brendan Rizzo

@ Raised by Horses:

Did YOU have a say in the last time YOUR country went to war?

You also completely misunderstood what I meant about standard of living. Capitalism was nowhere mentioned in that little rant; I just pointed out "Standard of living" to show why the ancient Greeks and Romans should not count as democracy.

Where did "true democracy" originate, according to you? It definitely wasn't in Europe, land of the Christian theocracies and absolute monarchism. It seems that nowhere is there "true democracy". There are a lot of things that I dislike... no scratch that, HATE with a capital H, A, T, and E, about my country, but enough is enough! I can't stand it anymore! Fucking Religious Right, they ruin everything! Can't a guy be optimistic in PEACE?! NO, they have to shred that through a hundred pieces and ruin America's reputation, and by extension ruin MY reputation! I hate them with a passion that you non-Americans could not even comprehend! Fuck it, the way you put it things will never change. WHAT DID I DO IN A PAST LIFE TO DESERVE LIVING IN A COUNTRY WHICH HAS NO RESPECT, AND WILL NEVER GET ANY RESPECT?! As far as the rest of the world is concerned, the USA can do no right! Third World countries hate us for no reason, Europe constantly mocks every single god-damned aspect of our foreign policy and act so hypocritically superior... who was it that interfered in the bloodiest European conflict after WWII? It definitely wasn't you arrogant Western Europeans! YOU are the ones who are responsible for the mess that this world is in, ergo, YOU must fix it! Fix it COMPLETELY so that there is no difference in standard of living anywhere, but if you fail this impossible task, I will never forgive you. Either way, since it's impossible, that will never happen... Whenever I get on this fucking website I get consumed by sheer envy towards those European bastards. You don't deserve to be less influenced by stupid fundies, you dont't deserve your high standard of living, you do not deserve ANYTHING! The United States can't even force backwater hellholes to do its bidding... WHAT KIND OF LOUSY SUPERPOWER IS THAT?! NUKE CHINA! NUKE THE MIDDLE EAST! NUKE AFRICA! NUKE EVERY PROBLEM COUNTRY THERE IS! I CAN NOT TAKE IT ANY MORE! ... That'll show those bastards. If we ever develop a way to cryogenically preserve still-living people, you can bet I'll be one of the first to take that one-way trip to the future... the current state of affairs is sickening! I get physically sick just by thinking about it! Everyone is either an ungrateful entitled bastard or a constantly screwed over and suffering bastard!

It's so totally unfair... for all of its history Europe was the Complete Monster of geopolitics, and then they kill two whole generations of their citizens and they get rewarded (WTF?!) with having the highest standard of living anywhere and a populace that does not tolerate irrationality and stupidity! Fucking Euros... if it weren't for us Americans you would all be slaves to baronial psychopaths...

You know what, just forget it all. Europeans are arrogant, Asians are racists, Africans are incompetent, Americans are stupid, Australians are total bastards, Jews have an unwarranted sense of entitlement, Christians are hate-filled morons, Muslims are sociopaths, Hindus are primitives, Buddhists don't make any sense and are smug about it, indigenous religions are even MORE primitive, atheists are insufferable, white South Africans are completely irredeemable, and Southerners have the worst aspects of all of the above. I hate everybody equally, so fuck everything!

5/25/2011 7:55:33 PM

Professor M

@ Brendan Rizzo --

If we worried less about being jealous of Europe and more about trying to give less, rather than more, power to our own corporate baronial psychopaths, we might be better off...

5/25/2011 8:12:39 PM

Tolpuddle Martyr

One big fib, misconstrue a straw man and true Scotsman in a pear tree.

5/26/2011 12:31:37 AM



They’re wrong in believing in the perfectibility of man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wnPHFSdrME

You were saying?

5/26/2011 2:41:00 AM



FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME.THE CZAR WAS THE ENEMY OF THE BOLSHEVIK COMMUNISTS.RUSSIA=/=EVIL COMMIES.

I needed that.

5/26/2011 2:56:50 AM

nazani14

The press should not have tired to sexy up appointed positions like Intellectual Property Enforcement Coordinator by calling him the Copyright Czar. Journalists should know that they are writing for stupid people.

5/26/2011 4:08:22 AM



What does being liberal have to do with being a Christian? You didn't say "name one republican", you said "name one Christian". She's a Christian.

5/26/2011 5:16:47 AM

COKNOSE

"Funkopolis

Yup, 'cos if there's one thing socialists love, it's a tsar. "

HA HA HA HA HA HA MINT. X

5/26/2011 6:24:10 AM

John_in_Oz

Those Apostles 'sharing all things in common'? Anti-Christian Socialists, the lot of them.

5/26/2011 6:41:56 AM

Anon-e-moose

@Dr. Razark

"@Swede

'Dearie, Liberals are right-wing, Socialists are left-wing.'

You seem to be unfamiliar with U.S. politics."

I'd like to see Timmy here go to Australia, go into a room with a Liberal Democrat there, and call them 'left-wing'.

He/she would emerge out of said room (now looking like a charnel house, a la "Hostel"), clothes blood-stained but otherwise unharmed*, saying 'Bloody pooftah!'.

PROTIP: Liberal Democrats in Australia are as right-wing as the Teabaggers, Neocunts et al in the US.

*- As for Timmypoos, well, what's left of him would even make Pinhead & co. from the "Hellraiser" films puke their guts out. >:D

5/26/2011 8:36:25 AM

Anon

He goes to church. He's been baptized. He's a christian.
Also, JFK was Catholic.
Liberal ? socialist.

5/26/2011 1:59:43 PM

Giveitaday

I don’t think I’ve said that. But the fact is, he’s a committed socialist. He was educated by a socialist, he thinks like a socialist, and he surrounds himself with socialist, ultra, ultra-liberal thinkers. The problem with socialism is, not only do they not believe in God or accountability to him…

First, what is the meaning of socialism? Do you even know? Second, President Obama was educated by a single socialist and no one else? Because that is what you seem to be claiming. Third, since when is it a tenet of socialism to disbelieve in a god? And finally, how is it you could possibly have insight in or even knowledge of the deeply held personal beliefs of anyone in the Obama administration?

I’m talking about socialism. He is a committed socialist. They’re wrong in believing in the perfectibility of man—that man is very good. That’s one of the cardinal mistakes that socialists make. The Bible says that man’s heart is desperately wicked, and he needs salvation. He needs a new heart put in him by spiritual force in calling for the name of the Lord. One thing you have to distinguish is those who claim they’re Christians, but who’ve never had an experience with Jesus. They’re usually people that hardly ever go to church, hardly ever read the Bible, but rather than be atheists or nothing, they say they’re a Christian. Well, that doesn’t make you a Christian.

I'm sorry Mr. Lahaye, I was unaware that your "god" had charged you alone with deciding who is and is not a christian. Just as i was unaware that anyone who wished to refer to themselves as a "christian" needed to first seek your approval and blessing.

I challenge you: Name one Christian who he’s appointed to public office.

General David Petreus. SecDef Robert Gates. just to name two.

[ Hillary Clinton.]

You’ve got to be kidding me. She’s a socialist. She is ultra, ultra liberal.


You know this how? Moreover, where in the bible is it written that one cannot be both liberal and christian? You are imposing your own personal political beliefs and opinions on a religion, when in fact it does not so much as resemble many of the beliefs put forth in the bible. What you are doing Mr. Lahaye, is taking the platform and talking points of the GOP and calling it christianity.

And besides, have you ever heard of as many communists or socialists that have been appointed as tsars in our country? There are 134 of them and they’ve been appointed by this man who you claim is a Christian.

No I don't, and neither do you. If you did then you would name them and offer up evidence to show that they are in fact communists rather than sit there and make vague assertions and claim that makes it fact.

Further more, neither myself nor the questioner "claim" that President Obama is a christian, Obama himself says he's a christian and who is Tim Lahaye to say differently? Oh I'm sorry, I had forgotten that the christian god had tasked Mr. Lahaye with deciding who is and is not a "true christian(TM)" or even who can label themselves as christian. I am of the opinion that a persons political affiliation has far more to do with whether or not Lahaye considers them christian than that persons actual works, beliefs, or depth of faith. Lahaye is playing a partisan political game and simply calling it religion, which is about as disingenous and decietful as they come.

On top of all that I'm still at a loss as to where the bible condemns either socialism or communism, in fact the Gospels in particular seem to advocate communism, and communism was without a doubt practiced by the early church and is still practiced in some christian communities such as the Amish.

5/26/2011 9:41:59 PM

farpadokly

@Brendan Rizzo:
If you oversimplify and stereotype, you are committing exactly the same errors as the Christian right.
America in its colonial period was culturally just an extension of Europe anyway. The ideals of the drafters of the constitution were just European enlightenment ideals (from Locke, de Montesquieu etc). Were the "founding fathers" themselves not just the grandsons and great-grandsons of Englishmen? That's not to downplay the importance of the American revolution which was of course very significant in helping to influence the French revolution and end monarchical absolutism as you suggest.
There are so many great things about America and most Europeans are incredibly fond of it, especially its popular culture. But that confluence of biblical literalism and reactionary politics that flourishes in certain places there threatens everyone. It encourages and emboldens the religious right in Europe and elsewhere. It's a global problem, why indulge in factionalism and regional and national stereotypes? Nationalism, patriotism; just other varieties of irrational thinking which, just like religious fanatacism, have historically only lead to bad places. We in Europe have hopefully learnt that much.

5/27/2011 12:19:46 AM

Capello Moderno

@ Brendan Rizzo

That was a funny post.
I once met an American in Qingdao, China, and, prompted, I "admitted" that: Yes, we euro's have a lot to thank the US for - WWII intervention, Marshall plan, popular music etc.

He was very touched, and told me that was the first time he'd ever met a euro, who'd admit to any of that.

It's kind of silly, no? 'Cause we all know that that's part of the truth (there's another side too, but WE DON'T HAVE TO GO THERE EVERY SINGLE TIME, WE SPEAK TO AN AMERICAN)

Anyhow - you seem to be up to your head in identity politics. We're all human, maybe even individuals at some level. Since people will continue throwing bigot culturalist concepts at each other all over the place, may I suggest less identification with being American and what America means?

*Thumbs up for socialism btw - it really works: only place ever tried = Scandinavia*

5/27/2011 12:53:33 AM

Professor M

@ Capello Moderno --

I don't think anyone needs to thank us for the Marshall Plan -- we got rich off of it, since it was designed to expand markets for U.S. goods.

5/27/2011 6:48:59 AM

JohnTheAtheist

I kind of agree that Obama is probably not really a christian. He seems way too smart to believe in the invisible man in the sky theory. All the better. That being so, what Lahaye really mean to say was "damn nigger".

5/27/2011 8:23:15 AM

Toothygrin

@Brendan

*smile* I understand your pain. I may not agree with everything you say, but I do see a lot of what you're describing. However, I don't necessarily agree with the aggravation you're feeling.

Please remember, that as far as cultures go, we are still in our teenage years. Compare our mere 236 years to Italy, for example. Spain; both countries have millenia under their belt. We've got a lot of growing up to do. We're testosterone-laden, short-sighted, blustery, and proud of it -- the very image of a teenager. I totally "get" why Europe looks at us like a wizened adult comparatively -- it is!

Also, due to our huge geographical size, we're going to have sections of our country that are discordant to others. We have states that are as big as a lot of European countries, after all.

Don't get me wrong. I absolutely adore our country and the people in it. I just can't stand the bluster and arrogance of some of our countrymen.

Also, just a nit-pick... We're not a democracy; we're a representative republic. After all, if we were a true democracy (popular votes win), Bush would never have won the presidency. (source: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_Presidential_candidates_won_the_election_but_lost_the_popular_vote). ;)

5/27/2011 8:57:42 AM

SeekerLancer

So not only is everyone evil according to this version of Christianity but even trying to help your fellow man is a waste of time.

Yeah that totally sounds like something Jesus would've said.

5/28/2011 4:44:15 AM



Please, go back to college, a real one, I mean, and learn about politics before it's TOO LATE.

5/28/2011 11:26:40 AM
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