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Quote# 81498

ARGUMENT PART 1 ( the atheistic view shown as a syllogism )
1) If God does not exist, then there is no logical reason for relying on logic. (Modus Tollens)
2) There is a logical reason for relying on logic. (Modus Tollens)
C Therefore it is not the case that God does not exist or (God exists ( by negation.) Q.E.D.
This brings an atheist to the question - What is the logical reason for relying on logic ? And that brings them to see that they believe in what they have not proved (only faith).
They argue against God, because they want sufficient logical evidence, but they do so with the very tool they cannot or will not give sufficient logical evidence for. (Hypocrisy?)

(So, they ACCUSE Theists of doing that which they do, shame...shame...shame. How inconsistent?)

Jesus.Christ, iamjc.freeforums.org 117 Comments [5/26/2011 3:56:25 AM]
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Jesus.Christ

What is true, is true for everyone.

5/28/2011 9:42:09 PM

Anon-e-moose

@Jesus.Christ

"What is true, is true for everyone."

O RLY? So you're actually agreeing wih L. Ron Hubbard? Well, in that case, cop for what the likes of Tom Cruise Control read after many years of Auditing, 'Patter Drills' (talking to walls), making figures out of Plasticine, and paying many hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars to read. You may not like what you're about to read too:

http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/russia/ot8.htm

(emphasis added):

'For those of you whose Christian toes I may have stepped on, let me take the opportunity to disabuse you of some lovely myths. For instance, the historic Jesus was not nearly the sainted figure has been made out to be. In addition to being a lover of young boys and men. he was given to uncontrollable bursts of temper and hatred that belied the general message of love, understanding and other typical Marcab PR. You have only to look at the history his teachings inspired to see where it all inevitably leads. It Is historic fact and yet man still clings to the ideal'

And it is Truth - you yourself have admitted so.

When Pontius Pilate asked the extremely simple question of Jesus:

'What is Truth?'

Jesus couldn't answer.

Thus I ask of you the same question:

What is Truth?

I know the answer. Like I say, it's an extremely simple one. I'll give you a clue for free:

'We're all gonna die.'

-Billy Sole (Sonny Landham, "Predator")

Like taxes and HD failures (which is why I back up my data religiously), there is only one real, ultimate Truth: Death.

Rich, poor. Male, Female. Black, white. American, British. Handsome, ugly. Religious, or not. Like we Atheists, you fundies are going to end up looking like leftover pizza: cold, clotted, and stuck to the bottom of a box.

The 'Soul'? An 'Afterlife'? 'Heaven'? 'Hell'? Like O'Brien, the Inner Party and Big Brother in "1984" with their 'Truth' that 2+2=5, religion's 'Truth' is the ultimate Lie.

And why? Simple. Just one word that completely annihilates any & all of religions' so-called 'Truth', in the delusional guise of 'Faith' and 'Belief':

Proof.

No evidence for a 'Soul', 'Afterlife', 'Heaven' and 'Hell' = your 'Truth' = LIES. Prove me wrong.



Ergo, the only Fact of Life:



Q.E.D.

(PROTIP: The addition of 'Probably' in that slogan by the British Humanist Society, was purely to conform to Advertising Standards Authority regulations)

Now, unless you can provide me with proof that the 'Soul' exists, along with an 'Afterlife', Heaven' and a 'Hell' exists - in which case, better get that "Sliders"-style dimensional portal generator out; also prove the existence of your 'God' to the satisfaction of we Atheists (and that means him appearing to us in hard, solid, physical form; also him proving he is what he says he is - via him demonstrating his powers - again, to our satisfaction; and that means in my case, he must do whatever I say in perpetuity. Them's the conditions, they're not up for negotiation), then Guest is correct when he says about you:

'He is a troll. On About.com's Agnosticism/Atheism Forum, he ran this argument for years. We finally gagged him for using a sockpuppet to make it look like he was finally winning an atheist over with his "logic".

He has been shown the glaring errors in his logic, not hundreds, but literally thousands of times (on about.com the thread ran to nearly 12 thousand posts).

What he does is act as if you are using any logical fallacy that you demonstrate that he is using.

If he can't find a way to do that, he ignores EVERYTHING that is said to him and just returns to his initial claims that atheists, (for nonsensical "reasons" known only to JC) cannot logically use ANY logical arguments until they FIRST demonstrate they have a logical reason to use logic, but without using any logic to demonstrate that point.

He then claims that only believers can logically use logic because the immutable laws of logic are held inside the mind of his god. By claiming *that* bit of fallacious nonsense, JC claims to have proven not only that believers alone have a logical reason to rely on logic, but to have proven that god exists because logic exists.

While it is glaringly obvious why his non-argument is fallacious -- probably the most fallacious thing you will ever encounter -- he won't back down and he will twist ALL attempts at rational discourse into alleged "proof" that atheists are illogical hypocrites and anything we say only proves that his god exists.

He ran this argument on About.com for almost three years, nearly 12 thousand posts, and he won't be affected by ANY effort to debate rationally.

Again, he is a troll. He is known to use sock puppet accounts to keep his threads going permanently.'

So go ahead. Prove the existence of the 'Soul'.An 'Afterlife'. 'Heaven'. 'Hell'. 'God' to our satisfaction, or be proven that your so-called 'Truth' is nothing but LIES. And that you're nothing more than a troll.

Ergo, Atheism. QED. My 'Belief' is Evidence. My 'Faith' is Facts.

And the one simple Fact: Proof annihilates 'Truth'.

And as for 'Logic':



As proven by your own quote here (1, 2, C?!), you wouldn't know logic, if a rabid Targ jumped up and raped you.

5/29/2011 11:12:40 AM

Jesus.Christ

http://iamjc.freeforums.org/i-am-t3.html

JC: Thanks for your continued support and feeding the I AM thread. Please feel free to post your request for proof on the actual thread.
___

Anon-e-moose: Prove the existence of the 'Soul'.An 'Afterlife'. 'Heaven'. 'Hell'. 'God' to our satisfaction, or be proven that your so-called 'Truth' is nothing but LIES.

JC: B4 that - I would need assurance you would have the ability to know if sufficient evidence that amounts to proof for GOD has or hasn't already been given.

In other words, Why and how, when I know with absolute clarity, that you rest all your thinking on a LIE would you know what such evidence that amounts to proof had be given.

What criteria will you be able to judge with, besides your little ole subjective tiny (to offense) opinion.

I do love you all and am glad to try to help you see the error in your thinking.

Please know you are always welcome to post your objections or questions directly to the I AM thread.

with love, (and don't think I have spite in my heart because I tell you the truth),
really,
JC



5/29/2011 11:49:58 AM

Anon-e-moose

@Jesus.Christ

"JC: B4 that" tl;dr...

Nope, not a sufficient answer - certainly one to my satisfaction.

Ergo, your 'Truth' = LIES. And you = Troll. Q.E.D. Your lack of a satisfactory answer (certainly to me) proves that.

"criteria". "subjective [...] opinion".



PROTIP: What Guest said previously.

This discussion is now at an end.

5/29/2011 12:23:20 PM



You might wanna check the commonly used definition of "syllogism" in this kind argument.

5/29/2011 4:02:13 PM

Jesus.Christ

http://iamjc.freeforums.org/i-am-t3.html

JC: Thanks for your continued support and feeding the I AM thread. Please feel free to post your request for proof on the actual thread.
___

Anon-e-moose: Prove the existence of the 'Soul'.An 'Afterlife'. 'Heaven'. 'Hell'. 'God' to our satisfaction, or be proven that your so-called 'Truth' is nothing but LIES.

JC: B4 that - I would need assurance you would have the ability to know if sufficient evidence that amounts to proof for GOD has or hasn't already been given.

In other words, Why and how, when I know with absolute clarity, that you rest all your thinking on a LIE would you know what such evidence that amounts to proof had be given.

What criteria will you be able to judge with, besides your little ole subjective tiny (to offense) opinion.

I do love you all and am glad to try to help you see the error in your thinking.

Please know you are always welcome to post your objections or questions directly to the I AM thread.

with love, (and don't think I have spite in my heart because I tell you the truth),
really,
JC



5/29/2011 10:07:01 PM

perak1939

@Jesus.Christ

That's what we love about you: After years of sincere attempts by intelligent, educated people to hoist you from the shithole that passes for your mind, you remain a pathetically ignorant fuckwit and damned proud of it.

5/30/2011 4:42:56 AM

Anon-e-moose

@perak1939, Guest

Wow. That's quite the crusty wanking sock in HTML form... er, I mean forum J.C has there.

...and I use the word 'forum' in it's loosest sense, of course:

'Total posts 37 | Total topics 2 | Total members 6*'

Just as there was direct competition to FSTDT:

http://www.freewebs.com/astdt/index.htm

With emphasis on 'was.'

Distind must be having nightmares about this new competitor, in the form of 'J.C'. [/mega-sarcasm]

PROTIP: I don't think I'll be wanting to spend time 'debating' with 'J.C' (or in his case, 'masdebating') in that piss-poor excuse for a discussion arena. I'll never get the time back I'd have wasted in trying to argue the toss with someone whose own mindset is one-dimensional**, unbending - and in another realm to that the rest of us live in: Planet Reality.

At least ex-long-time Christian Jonathan Edwards:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Edwards_%28athlete%29#Religious_beliefs

Didn't require having a discussion with an intellectually superior Atheist, to realise he was closed-minded about his beliefs - and therefore wrong - all along. No...

He became an Atheist purely by dint of his own critical thinking faculties. With emphasis on thinking. As in thinking for himself.

'J.C' take note.

*- And I wonder how many of those six are actually other people - as in not 'J.C', and not sockpuppets, hmmmmm? 'J.C' = He Who Must Not Be Named, a.k.a. 'T**y B****s'.

**- At least I'm prepared to accept what a fundie says. As long as they can provide me with hard, solid, physical proof, to my satisfaction.

5/30/2011 9:19:14 AM

NonProphet

Reading this has given me a headache.
I can actually feel my brain cells committing suicide.

5/30/2011 1:32:28 PM

NonProphet

NP: Reading this has given me a headache.
I can actually feel my brain cells committing suicide.

JC: Using the brain after long periods of atheistic fantasizing ones use of it will do that.

**- At least I'm prepared to accept what a fundie says. As long as they can provide me with hard, solid, physical proof, to my satisfaction.

NOTE how this poster asks for physical proof for God, but what physical proof for logic will he give? (none so far)

Isn't he being an inconsistent hypocrite to judge evidence for God to his "satisfaction"
by logical means. (yes I agree he is)

I am sure he will try to rely on it even though he has not any physical evidence for it.


5/30/2011 1:50:12 PM

anon e moose

A-MOOSE **- At least I'm prepared to accept what a fundie says. As long as they can provide me with hard, solid, physical proof, to my satisfaction.

JC: At least I'm prepared to accept what an atheist says, as long as he can "provide me with hard, solid, physical proof, to my satisfaction" for a logical reason for his relying on logic to judge any physical proof that was or will be given that proves God exists.



WE have been waiting oh so long for it.


5/30/2011 2:01:36 PM

anon e moose

A-MOOSE **- At least I'm prepared to accept what a fundie says. As long as they can provide me with hard, solid, physical proof, to my satisfaction.

JC: At least I'm prepared to accept what an atheist says, as long as he can "provide me with hard, solid, physical proof, to my satisfaction" for a logical reason for his relying on logic to judge any physical proof that was or will be given that proves God exists.



WE have been waiting oh so long for it.


5/30/2011 2:16:33 PM

protowhalepig

iv.) You're the stupidest cunt that ever used a computer.
E.) No really, you are.

5/30/2011 9:16:54 PM

Anon-e-moose

@NonProphet

Oh, look. Just like He Who Must Not Be Named (a.k.a. T**y B****s) did here in FSTDT in the past, the troll's reduced to stealing other people's screenames.

Such are the desperate measures of those who know they're cornered, by others who are more than infinitely superior to them, intellectually.

Even the long-time Christian Jonathan Edwards is infinitely superior to the troll. As in he had the latent intellect to destroy his own beliefs. Ergo, Jonathan Edwards the Atheist. QED.

(*pats 'J.C' on head*)

Now you go back to your plastic bridge playset and plushie goats dear, the adults are talking. Maybe if you grow up, you can join in the discussion with we mature, educated, intelligent, intellectual people.

But not today.

'So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.'

-Bertrand Russell

5/31/2011 8:38:44 AM

Jesus.Christ

Sorry for posting the wrong user names. I put it in the wrong place and then I did not see how to delete or edit after posting.

I also posted something twice by accident.

I did put initials by who said what I think.

I didn't read any instruction manual. I did figure out you need to check here. If there are some rules I am messing up on let me know. I will try looking under the home page,,,

5/31/2011 10:03:43 AM

Jesus.Christ

'So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.'

-Bertrand Russell
-----------------------------------------

¶ Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

(a serpent is someone who is intelligent, but unfortunately like an atheist uses poison (lies) to accomplish its his goal.

MAT 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

LUK 11:31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon [is] here.

Solomon was considered great for his wisdom and knowledge and ability to use it.

5/31/2011 10:24:46 AM

Skip

Christians, meet logic. Logic, meet Christians. I know you guys haven't always gotten along, and you've had a few misunderstandings in the past, but--no, no, Christians! What are you--oh my god! Stop raping logic!! Gah!! Now you've killed it and--no! Don't use its dead, raped body to bludgeon your ideological opponents!!

5/31/2011 9:30:11 PM

Jesus.Christ

Atheists meet God. I know you guys haven't always gotten along, and you've had a few misunderstandings in the past, but--He will reason with you.

5/31/2011 11:18:14 PM

Allegory for Jesus

"Atheists meet God. I know you guys haven't always gotten along, and you've had a few misunderstandings in the past, but--He will reason with you."

Good. Because, as previously mentioned, Christians are piss-poor at doing the job in his place. Case in point: You.

5/31/2011 11:39:56 PM

Lezemotu

Round and round and round we go...

6/1/2011 2:35:27 AM

Anon-e-moose

@Allegory for Jesus

'Atheists meet God. I know you guys haven't always gotten along, and you've had a few misunderstandings in the past, but--He will reason with you.'

"Good. Because, as previously mentioned, Christians are piss-poor at doing the job in his place. Case in point: You."

'The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.'

-Bertrand Russell

And 'J.C' here is the case in point Mr. Russell - and your good self, AfJ - was talking about so succinctly. I mean...:

"Atheists meet God. I know you guys haven't always gotten along, and you've had a few misunderstandings in the past, but--He will reason with you."

Well, I'm waiting. As I've been doing so all my life. 'J.C's arse gravy reminds me of a routine by a comedian (can't remember his name; emphasis added):

'If God is the most powerful being in the universe, why does he need a bunch of bozos to do his P.R.?'.

But then, like I say, AfJ:

'So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.'

-Bertrand Russell

'Intelligence is the enemy of faith'

-Martin Luther

Ignorance. Born of religious 'faith'. That is the real sin.

6/1/2011 8:49:37 AM

Jesus.Christ

1) If God does not exist, then there is no logical reason for relying on logic.
2) There is a logical reason for relying on logic.
C Therefore it is not the case that God does not exist.
- not G then not R
- r
: G

Many atheists boast how logical they are, but lack real ability to prosect this syllogism.

I did have discussion with a logic professor, at least he offered logical objections with actual reason behind what he said...

Not like:
Failed right at the start. (Trivial)
Refuted by - no it doesn't (Just as Trivial)
-----------
Or:
Premise 1 contains a contradiction.
(better but show your work you did take a class right?)
________________
Much better:

1) If God does exist, then there is no logical reason for relying on logic. (Supernatural being capable of miracles that, by their very nature, defy common sense and logic)

This is what the professor tried. The problem here is we are assuming the atheist view no GOD and your definition is off.

Try a transcendent everywhere present all knowing mind, the creator and the reason for everything that exists. (this is Theist view)


2) Saying that there is a logical reason to rely on logic sounds a lot like a circular argument.

My logical reason is not circular in your version you are trying to remain in the view of atheist while jumping to the Theistic view.
So it is your view that is:
reduce to nonsense Q.E.D.
------------
:
"no basis for the first claim"
It is the atheist view and it is assumed for arguments sake. We already know that view has no basis because atheist cant prove God does not exist. And logic is something atheists boast.

----------------------------


6/1/2011 10:11:13 AM

lisamariefan

The faulty premise had me going lolwut, and then I had trouble following the fucked up logic after that.

6/1/2011 10:29:57 AM

perak1939

@ Jesus.Christ


In #1295069, you quite possibly make less sense than you ever have. Quite an accomplishment! Now, once again, how does your unabashed public exposure of your brain-dead status serve as proof for the existence of your god-thingie?

6/2/2011 12:11:17 PM

Anon-e-moose

(*sings*):



'...Uchuu... kyoudai bure...!'

(*tune ends*)

What was that? I was just singing some Zentraedi-inspired Enka (in this case, from episode 5 of the anime series "Macross Frontier"), and I thought I heard a fundie trying to use 'logic'. Oh well, must've been my imagination. For my next song (*presses button on Karaoke machine; intro to music*), I'd like to sing for you the Enka tune (from the anime series "Lucky Star") 'Cape of Thirty Years'...:

(*sings*):

'Hitorigatari shite mo ii desu ka
KAMOME ni sotto tsubuyaita...'

http://www.anivide.com/lyrics.html?cid=308&view=1616

http://www.mediafire.com/?zx1me9fkyw2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enka

6/3/2011 7:35:41 AM
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