Effects on morale can be particularly adverse. The presence of women among male troops weakens combat readiness. All-male units in the field experience bonding that enhances unit cohesion and effectiveness. When women are introduced, men stop relating to each other and begin trying to attract the women. Nor can morale be improved when accusations of harassment are always a threat. Male officers leave the office door open or have a third person in the room when dealing with a female subordinate. An accusation of sexual harassment by the woman, even if unproven, would severely damage the man's service career, and both the man and the woman are acutely aware of that fact. They could hardly not be sensitive to the issue when, for example, Representative Pat Schroeder demanded and got sexual harassment training for all personnel in order to rid the Navy of bad attitudes.
The Israelis, Soviets, and Germans, when in desperate need of front-line troops, placed women in combat, but later barred them. Male troops forgot their tactical objectives in order to protect the women from harm or capture, knowing what the enemy would do to female prisoners of war. This made combat units less effective and exposed the men to even greater risks. In the Gulf War a female American pilot was captured, raped, and sodomized by Iraqi troops. She declared that this was just part of combat risk. But can anyone suppose that male pilots will not now divert their efforts to protecting female pilots whenever possible?
Our military seems quite aware of such dangers, but, because of the feminists, it would be politically dangerous to respond as the Israelis did by taking women out of harm's way. Instead, the American solution is to try to stifle the natural reactions of men. The Air Force, for example, established a mock prisoner of war camp to desensitize male recruits so they won't react like men when women prisoners scream under torture. There is a very considerable anomaly here. The military is training men to be more sensitive to women in order to prevent sexual harassment and also training men to be insensitive to women being raped and sodomized or screaming under torture. It is impossible to believe that both efforts can succeed simultaneously.
64 comments
Blah blah blah, lies, blah blah blah, armchair sociology, blah blah blah mysoginy etc.
It is obvious to me that Robert has never served in the military. As a veteran for the past 19 years and still serving active duty now, as well as having served in "the field," I can tell you first hand that Bobby here is full of shit.
Women in the army? Oh, noes! Why, next thing you know, they'll be letting those sissy-boy queers sign up for military service! They won't be of any use to us in combat, either, since they'll be too busy applying mascara and parading around in comfortable, frilly clothing!
/chickenhawk
Apparently the nebulous concept of "morale" is the end-all-be-all concept for justifying whatever nonsense restrictions a person wants to put on who is allowed to serve in the military. Women? Demoralize men. Gays? Demoralize straights. Atheists? Demoralize Christians. I wonder if at one point in history, blacks were supposedly ruining the morale of upstanding white troops...
I suppose it depends on where you start from. If you believe that women are inferior pretty little things good for child rearing, sex and cleaning then yeah you have a point.
If you believe that the majority of differences that appear between men and women are due to social attitudes rather than competency then your full of shit.
Oh and the name Honky McCracker is funny as fuck.
"When women are introduced, men stop relating to each other and begin trying to attract the women."
Clearly thought up by someone who doesn't know how to be a professional. The only REAL reason to be concerned about woman on the battle field is the lack of female-specific body armor, compromising their safety or effectiveness as a result, though now that there's enough females in the military they're actually working on that.
Bloodysneeze, if you'd read the site's faqs, you'd know that a quote does not have to be religious to be fundy. Kthnxbai.
Also, [citation needed] on most of this, especially the POW training camp.
"The presence of women among male troops weakens combat readiness."
There are women soldiers in the British Army. PROTIP: as demonstrated in the film "Starship Troopers", when it cones to serving your civilised world, as long as you're physically fit, you can serve. Regardless of gender.
Would you like to know more?
Actually, the Israeli Army enlists men and women! They are not a voluntary army, everybody has to do their duty and serve!
Men and Women can work / serve together just fine, without focusing on sex, but it seems fundies make it all about this? Also, I don't understand your idea of men being trained to be sensitive and insensitive about one issue at the same time!
"When women are introduced, men stop relating to each other and begin trying to attract the women."
So the obvious solution is to recruit more gay soldiers.
This would explain why the Soviets were absolutely helpless by the end of World War II, and the Israeli military has some of the worst morale and training issues of all time.
Oh wait, you mean that's not true? The most gender-integrated modern militaries have also been among the most powerful? Oh, that's interesting.
Also, the Germans did not ever use female troops officially. They used old men and young boys when they got desparate, but never really females. Since they were suffering massive manpower shortages towards the end, you could say that such a decision partially lost them the war.
The last time I checked women were still being sent to the front lines in combat roles for the Israeli Defense Forces, so I'm not sure what you are on about.
Also, was this your exact same argument against gays in the military?
The (male) Air Force pilots that I know strongly prefer gender-integrated units. They say that it cuts down on some of the rougher elements of military culture - less cursing, more general civility and mutual respect. Apparently, this works best when the gender ratio isn't too lopsided, which is what you'd expect.
So, outside of front-line infantry, where upper-body strength may justify a gender differential, they would prefer a ratio of nearly 1:1.
My brother-in-law when I asked him what if a woman was to join his Spec Ops squad said "As long as she could do the job she was given, I'm okay with it." Just like if a man can meet the requirements and endure the training, a woman should be granted full equality to be allowed to as well.
You do relize that if it were only men in the millitary, that some of them will start raping each other, right?
In the Gulf War a female American pilot was captured, raped, and sodomized by Iraqi troops.
Yes, because no enemy would ever rape a male solider. Right... Right?
Nope, Bork never, ever served in the military. And since he's an old guy, he probably thinks today's military is like it was in the pre-WWII years, where it was all men being men and no women allowed.
You are painting our armed forces as immature, overly sexual, and unable to focus when faced with differences. I congratulate you on the massive hole in logic you just made for hating and supporting the same thing.
Robbie,
This may come as a shock to you, but men too have an opening in the nether regions which is capable of being penetrated by penises.
Have you got over your gasp for air? Then I'll continue. It is not uncommon for male prisoners to be raped by male captors. The humiliation involved was much appreciated back into biblical times and before. There are indications of it even in early Ancient Egypt.
Robbie, ask not for whom the enemy dick throbs: it throbs for thee!
Dude, I know an Israeli woman named Lilach who was on the front lines for the I.D.F. and now makes money by protecting tourists. Not only was she perfectly capable of protecting people her damn self, she was easily one of the most horrifying people I've ever met and could probably kill me and several other men twice her size in a room with just her pinky finger and a plastic spoon. She was also an amazingly nice person but that's another story.
First of all, most women don't report incidents of sexual harassment out of fear that they won't be believed.
And while your paternalistic view of women in combat is somewhat admirable, it's still very out of date and vaguely insulting. Women are just as capable in combat as men.
"The Air Force, for example, established a mock prisoner of war camp to desensitize male recruits so they won't react like men when women prisoners scream under torture" - Citation SERIOUSLY fucking needed.
He sure goes on and on fantasizing about how the men would have to focus on rescuing people who aren't asking to be rescued. The fantasy persists even with the real world example he provides showing it just doesn't work that way.
We all have our filters, but damn!
so, Joe Mama, this dork never served, despite being of an age to have been in VIetnam at least.
Another republican chickenhawk who talks big from an an armchair but avoided his country's call (like Bush, Cheney, etc, etc)
This is probably why they chose McCain last time: the only person who served in the upper echelons of the rethug party.
And they accuse the Democrats and "libruls" of being unpatriotic!
Sooo, sounds to me like it would suck to be a man in the military. I can go in knowing that the troop has got my back and men will take extra steps to insure sexual harassment is not an issue... poor guy, on the other hand, got to worry about brothers being self centered, putting him at risk of capture or death, and uncaring if he gets tortured.
That pilot was not raped or sodomised. She was, in her own words, 'molested' by a lone soldier in the back of a truck after being captured. She felt strongly, for reasons i can't be arsed irepeating, that it was an opportunist attack and he was scared of the other soldiers finding out. Apart from that she says she was treated with kindness and respect.
Also, my assessment of her character from what I've read leads me to believe that if she was here she would stomp your ass.
Would you like a drone to go with that whine?
My guess is, that like Rush Limbaugh, he's never been downrange of anything more deadly than a Krispy Kreme machine
"The Air Force, for example, established a mock prisoner of war camp to desensitize male recruits so they won't react like men when women prisoners scream under torture"
REACT LIKE MEN?
REAL MEN AREN'T AROUSED BY TORTURE SCENES YOU DIPWAD!!!!
IS BORKY-PANTS PROJECTING? IS HE INADVERTANLY REVEALING SOMETHING ABOUT HIMSELF? DOES HE SECRETLY FAP TO "ILSA" FLICKS, THAT RAPE SCENE IN "IRREVERSABLE", "AUGUST UNDERGROUND MORDUM" OR THE HENTAI, "NIGHT SHIFT NURSES"?
There is a huge problem in society when one half of the population cannot relate to the other as people, but only as mobile sexual objects and annoying interferences. Nothing Robert has said will do anything about it, only make the forced segregation worse.
@SpukiKitty
He's not saying they'd be aroused, he's saying they'd overeact and try to help the women in favour of the men- "can anyone suppose that male pilots will not now divert their efforts to protecting female pilots whenever possible?"
It's still sexist, but not as bad as some people on this site.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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