Quote# 81511

Effects on morale can be particularly adverse. The presence of women among male troops weakens combat readiness. All-male units in the field experience bonding that enhances unit cohesion and effectiveness. When women are introduced, men stop relating to each other and begin trying to attract the women. Nor can morale be improved when accusations of harassment are always a threat. Male officers leave the office door open or have a third person in the room when dealing with a female subordinate. An accusation of sexual harassment by the woman, even if unproven, would severely damage the man's service career, and both the man and the woman are acutely aware of that fact. They could hardly not be sensitive to the issue when, for example, Representative Pat Schroeder demanded and got sexual harassment training for all personnel in order to rid the Navy of bad attitudes.

The Israelis, Soviets, and Germans, when in desperate need of front-line troops, placed women in combat, but later barred them. Male troops forgot their tactical objectives in order to protect the women from harm or capture, knowing what the enemy would do to female prisoners of war. This made combat units less effective and exposed the men to even greater risks. In the Gulf War a female American pilot was captured, raped, and sodomized by Iraqi troops. She declared that this was just part of combat risk. But can anyone suppose that male pilots will not now divert their efforts to protecting female pilots whenever possible?

Our military seems quite aware of such dangers, but, because of the feminists, it would be politically dangerous to respond as the Israelis did by taking women out of harm's way. Instead, the American solution is to try to stifle the natural reactions of men. The Air Force, for example, established a mock prisoner of war camp to desensitize male recruits so they won't react like men when women prisoners scream under torture. There is a very considerable anomaly here. The military is training men to be more sensitive to women in order to prevent sexual harassment and also training men to be insensitive to women being raped and sodomized or screaming under torture. It is impossible to believe that both efforts can succeed simultaneously.

Robert Bork, Fathers for Life 64 Comments [5/26/2011 3:57:50 AM]
Fundie Index: 49
Submitted By: Honky McCracker

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And Ronny Ray-gun wanted to appoint this misogynist meat sack to the supreme court?!

5/26/2011 8:18:18 AM


Oh joy. Yet another human specimen that can't manage to lift itself above its animal nature.

5/26/2011 8:44:28 AM


All-male units in the field experience bonding that enhances unit cohesion and effectiveness.

I bet they do. Sign me up.

5/26/2011 8:45:36 AM


If your group loses morale due to someone being different then they're not very competent to begin with.

5/26/2011 8:49:53 AM

Captain Betty

This would explain why the Soviets were absolutely helpless by the end of World War II, and the Israeli military has some of the worst morale and training issues of all time.

Oh wait, you mean that's not true? The most gender-integrated modern militaries have also been among the most powerful? Oh, that's interesting.

Also, the Germans did not ever use female troops officially. They used old men and young boys when they got desparate, but never really females. Since they were suffering massive manpower shortages towards the end, you could say that such a decision partially lost them the war.

5/26/2011 8:56:17 AM


As a female veteran I would like to kick your ass.

5/26/2011 9:40:46 AM


You'll need citation. I highly doubt having a woman fight with you on the front lines will negatively affect morale

5/26/2011 10:27:38 AM


The last time I checked women were still being sent to the front lines in combat roles for the Israeli Defense Forces, so I'm not sure what you are on about.
Also, was this your exact same argument against gays in the military?

5/26/2011 11:09:31 AM


The (male) Air Force pilots that I know strongly prefer gender-integrated units. They say that it cuts down on some of the rougher elements of military culture - less cursing, more general civility and mutual respect. Apparently, this works best when the gender ratio isn't too lopsided, which is what you'd expect.

So, outside of front-line infantry, where upper-body strength may justify a gender differential, they would prefer a ratio of nearly 1:1.

5/26/2011 11:18:49 AM


And this is why we need a SSTDT (Sexists Say The Darndest Things)

5/26/2011 11:28:47 AM


What are the odds that this person has never served? I find it quite funny how he thinks that Professionalism is a myth.

5/26/2011 11:54:00 AM


My brother-in-law when I asked him what if a woman was to join his Spec Ops squad said "As long as she could do the job she was given, I'm okay with it." Just like if a man can meet the requirements and endure the training, a woman should be granted full equality to be allowed to as well.

5/26/2011 12:05:58 PM


Did something you ate not set well? Because that is some funky shit you just pulled out of your ass.

5/26/2011 1:08:47 PM

Old Viking

This mode of reasoning is known as "borking."

5/26/2011 1:45:53 PM


You do relize that if it were only men in the millitary, that some of them will start raping each other, right?

In the Gulf War a female American pilot was captured, raped, and sodomized by Iraqi troops.

Yes, because no enemy would ever rape a male solider. Right... Right?

5/26/2011 2:04:59 PM

Joe Mama

Nope, Bork never, ever served in the military. And since he's an old guy, he probably thinks today's military is like it was in the pre-WWII years, where it was all men being men and no women allowed.

5/26/2011 2:31:40 PM


You are painting our armed forces as immature, overly sexual, and unable to focus when faced with differences. I congratulate you on the massive hole in logic you just made for hating and supporting the same thing.

5/26/2011 3:03:58 PM



This may come as a shock to you, but men too have an opening in the nether regions which is capable of being penetrated by penises.

Have you got over your gasp for air? Then I'll continue. It is not uncommon for male prisoners to be raped by male captors. The humiliation involved was much appreciated back into biblical times and before. There are indications of it even in early Ancient Egypt.

Robbie, ask not for whom the enemy dick throbs: it throbs for thee!

5/26/2011 3:12:56 PM


Dude, I know an Israeli woman named Lilach who was on the front lines for the I.D.F. and now makes money by protecting tourists. Not only was she perfectly capable of protecting people her damn self, she was easily one of the most horrifying people I've ever met and could probably kill me and several other men twice her size in a room with just her pinky finger and a plastic spoon. She was also an amazingly nice person but that's another story.

5/26/2011 4:06:57 PM

Fundies Make Me Sick

First of all, most women don't report incidents of sexual harassment out of fear that they won't be believed.

And while your paternalistic view of women in combat is somewhat admirable, it's still very out of date and vaguely insulting. Women are just as capable in combat as men.

"The Air Force, for example, established a mock prisoner of war camp to desensitize male recruits so they won't react like men when women prisoners scream under torture" - Citation SERIOUSLY fucking needed.

5/26/2011 4:22:28 PM


He has a good point. Lots of men in our country don't have the maturity to deal with working with women.

5/26/2011 7:03:20 PM

Professor M

@ Old Viking --

Well, I don't know about "borking", but his reasoning is certainly borked.

5/26/2011 8:08:55 PM


He sure goes on and on fantasizing about how the men would have to focus on rescuing people who aren't asking to be rescued. The fantasy persists even with the real world example he provides showing it just doesn't work that way.

We all have our filters, but damn!

5/26/2011 8:58:41 PM

Mihangel apYrs

I quite agree

A perfect argument for an all gay military

5/26/2011 11:08:31 PM

Mihangel apYrs

so, Joe Mama, this dork never served, despite being of an age to have been in VIetnam at least.

Another republican chickenhawk who talks big from an an armchair but avoided his country's call (like Bush, Cheney, etc, etc)

This is probably why they chose McCain last time: the only person who served in the upper echelons of the rethug party.

And they accuse the Democrats and "libruls" of being unpatriotic!

5/26/2011 11:22:57 PM

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