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Quote# 82221

...[a previous letter to the editors] argues evolution to be “proven beyond question,” but her “proven” examples only support “micro-evolution” (minor changes within species), which no one questions. The controversy centers on still unproven “macro-evolution.” Darwinists presume that these huge disconnected leaps, appearing from nowhere, represent accumulations of billions of undiscovered micro-evolutionary changes. Applicable sciences utterly fail to support that presumption, often contradicting it.

Permit me as physicist/mathematician scientifically and logically to doubt evolution’s ability to produce such unimaginably complex organisms having incomprehensible instincts beyond our analysis. Mathematically: “it don’t add up!”

Neal Caldwell, Knoxville News Sentinel 84 Comments [6/27/2011 2:52:40 AM]
Fundie Index: 65
Submitted By: Purple Ghost
WTF?! || meh
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Berry Caluroso

?
I'm pretty sure that math proves that 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1=a big number.

6/27/2011 3:02:06 AM

christian leftie

Alll, fundies.

They demand interstitial evolutionary steps. When presented with their "missing link" they simply ask for the two now "missing" links to join the original two points to the middle. Repeat ad infinitum.

6/27/2011 3:23:08 AM

Creedence Leonore Gielgud

What mechanism(s) prevent so-called micro-evolution from becoming macro-evolution over time?

6/27/2011 3:23:58 AM



"Darwinists presume that these huge disconnected leaps, appearing from nowhere..."

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no...

"...represent accumulations of billions of undiscovered micro-evolutionary changes."

...no no no no no. Go learn stuff about evooution before you open your pretty little mouth.

"Permit me as physicist/mathematician..."

Thankfully you're not a biologist.

6/27/2011 3:30:45 AM

From the frozen north, Death cometh

Mathematically: “it don’t add up!”

Err... Microbiologically(??): "shut it and go solve some equations!"

6/27/2011 3:44:46 AM

Passerby

Is it any more unimaginable than the fact we can imagine things?

6/27/2011 3:48:40 AM

Tallyho

Appeal to the wrong authority award!

Then there is that well worn irreducibly complex crap that has been explained to these idiots before.

6/27/2011 4:20:54 AM

atropa

Permit me as a biologist to say that I don't understand those unimaginably complex equations that apparently constitute "proof" to mathematicians.

Does that make maths and everything based on it wrong?


6/27/2011 4:30:52 AM

Mister Spak

"Darwinists presume that these huge disconnected leaps, appearing from nowhere, represent accumulations of billions of undiscovered micro-evolutionary changes."

Goddidditists presume billions of small steps don't add up to a change billions of times bigger than the small steps.

"Permit me as physicist/mathematician scientifically and logically . . ."

Permit this person to educate you on logic:



6/27/2011 4:37:46 AM

NearlySane

Infinite regress

6/27/2011 4:53:57 AM

Matante

I actually doubt he's even an actual mathematician. Or maybe I'm just prejudiced against idiots.

6/27/2011 4:56:14 AM

David B.

Wait, a (self-proclaimed) mathematician is doubting that billions of micro-changes can sum to a macro-change?

I guess he must be the only mathematician in the world today to never have heard of calculus!

6/27/2011 5:03:01 AM

Murdin

There are currently no other scientific theory than evolution to explain speciation. "Goddidit" isn't and will never be a scientific theory for anything, even if it is ever proven true - what God is or does is simply beyond the scope of science. You're not a scientist.

6/27/2011 5:03:59 AM

Dan Onymous

"Permit me as physicist/mathematician scientifically and logically to doubt evolution’s ability to produce such unimaginably complex organisms having incomprehensible instincts beyond our analysis."


Sure. Just let us know when you become a physicist/mathematician.

6/27/2011 5:10:17 AM



So because you're a scientist in another field you feel you are qualified to state, from a position of ignorance no less, that biology is bunk? Then you're a shoddy excuse for a scientist.

6/27/2011 5:56:14 AM

Doubting Thomas

There's no such thing as micro/macro evolution, it's all just evolution. At least we've gotten then to admit that minor changes within species occurs, so give it another 100 years and they'll finally admit that minor changes within species eventually leads to new species.

6/27/2011 6:05:10 AM

Doctor Whom

Read the comments on that site. Mr. Caldwell got slaughtered.

6/27/2011 6:14:29 AM

Arts_Myth

If y represents 0.0000000000000000000001, adding y to 1 will not make it equal 2. Therefore it is safe to say that if z=1+xy, where x can be any number, z can never equal 2. y is just too small a change for the integer value of z to be anything other than 1.

6/27/2011 6:15:37 AM

StoneSpiral

Didn't someone say that saying 'Micro evolution is acceptable but macro evolution is impossible' is like saying you can walk across the room but you'd never be able to walk down the street?

6/27/2011 6:39:48 AM

arctic knight

..."only support “micro-evolution” (minor changes within species),..."

Speciation, the evolution of an organism from one species to another, has been directly observed.


6/27/2011 6:58:01 AM

Pule Thamex

Neal must be right. We can only assume that he is a physicist/mathematician of unparalleled excellence? We must bow before such authoritative intellectual rigour. It stands to reason. Science can't possibly explain ... er macro-evolution if even Neal can't see how science can play a part. Therefore, it must have been an invisible, non-existent, magic sky fairy what done it. What other logical conclusion can you possibly arrive at?

6/27/2011 7:07:17 AM

Professor M

Even if this fool is a mathematician and/or physicist...

There seems to be this thing (has anyone seen the xkcd strip?) where since the small-scale interactions in biology are basically chemistry and the small-scale interactions in chemistry are basically physics, then someone who studies physics (or math, which is what the more-elite-than-thou theoretical physicists spend all their time doing) is qualified to expound upon biology at both the organismal and biosystem levels.

Now, that would make things much more convenient for me, as somebody studying medical physics (ignore the username -- I'm a Professor of Nothing). Unfortunately, SCIENCE DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY and I have to study biology, anatomy, organic chemistry and biochemistry just like all the non-physicists who want to deal with living bodies without fucking up horrendously.

(I always wanted to add another step to the xkcd hierarchy -- for math, or any formal system, to be relevant to anything other than itself, there has to be a semiotic process involved -- which means that linguistics and continental-philosophy-style semiotics are the real "pure" field!)

6/27/2011 7:08:48 AM

Anon-e-moose

"The controversy centers on still unproven “macro-evolution.” Darwinists presume that these huge disconnected leaps, appearing from nowhere, represent accumulations of billions of undiscovered micro-evolutionary changes. Applicable sciences utterly fail to support that presumption, often contradicting it.

Permit me as physicist/mathematician scientifically and logically to doubt evolution’s ability to produce such unimaginably complex organisms having incomprehensible instincts beyond our analysis. Mathematically: “it don’t add up!”"

Where were you in 2005 when the defence team in Kitzmiller vs. Dover needed you, Neal?

...oh yes, that's right. You're a mere 'physicist/mathematician' who has little experience* in the field of biochemistry.

Michael Behe is a Professor of Biochemistry. He submitted evidence/testimony on behalf of the defence.

He chose... poorly. [/"Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade"*]

*- I'm a self-taught computer engineer. Before becoming the A-list actor he is today, Harrison Ford was an expert self-taught carpenter. Does that mean we're qualified to perform brain surgery? [/Jesus as a 'healer']

6/27/2011 7:12:07 AM

Horsefeathers

"... argues evolution to be 'proven beyond question,' but her 'proven' examples only support 'micro-evolution' (minor changes within species), which no one questions."

You'd be surprised just how many people question even this.

Also, please explain the mechanism that prevents many, many, many "micro-evolution" changes from becoming a "macro-evolution" that branches off a new species.

If you can do it, you'll win a Nobel Prize.

"Darwinists presume that these huge disconnected leaps, appearing from nowhere, represent accumulations of billions of undiscovered micro-evolutionary changes."

1: These aren't presumptions; they're observed reality. Check the fossil record. Check the genetic evidence.

2: The "leaps," as you call them, are neither disconnected nor appear from "nowhere." There's a smooth transition from one species to the next within the fossil record (at least those we have a more complete record of--horses, for example).

"Applicable sciences utterly fail to support that presumption, often contradicting it."

I find this claim highly dubious. Mostly because I don't believe you're either qualified to make this statement nor do you actually know which sciences are applicable to the question.

"Permit me as physicist/mathematician [...]"

Ah, see? I was right. You aren't qualified to make the above statement.

"[to] scientifically and logically to doubt evolution’s ability to produce such unimaginably complex organisms having incomprehensible instincts beyond our analysis."

Fine. You're a mathematician. Please look at fractals and tell me that complexity cannot arise from simple rules. Now, as a physicist tell me why fairly simple physical rules prevent chemicals from forming molecules such as DNA.

"Mathematically: 'it don’t add up!'"

Check your math. I think you forgot to carry a 1.

6/27/2011 7:19:17 AM

TGRwulf

For the last time, Micro and Macro evolution are the SAME DAMN THING!!!

6/27/2011 7:29:24 AM
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