Quote# 82262

["So anyway, Ray, I'm curious how you explain the....decrease in violent crime and warfare as Europe has become increasingly secular."]

Assuming your fact is true, we explain decrease in violence and the increase of secular worldviews, in Europe, to support the agenda of Satan as revealed in the Bible.

When the Bible and Christianity are abandoned, which is the only goal and agenda of Satan, he leaves that nation, city, person alone. To embrace secularism is to make peace with Satan. When this occurs the devil ceases to attack (incite violence in this case).

What's your explanation?

Ray Martinez, Pharyngula 88 Comments [6/30/2011 3:28:30 AM]
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David B.

[Meanwhile, in a parallel universe...]

"So anyway, Ray, I'm curious how you explain the [...] increase in violent crime and warfare as Europe has become increasingly secular."

Assuming your fact is true, we explain increase in violence and the increase of secular worldviews, in Europe, to support the agenda of Satan as revealed in the Bible.

When the Bible and Christianity are abandoned, which is the primary goal and agenda of Satan, he infests that nation, city, person entirely. To embrace secularism is to embrace Satan. When this occurs the devil is free to attack (incite violence in this case).

What's your explanation?

[...we now return you to your regular universe.]

6/30/2011 3:35:38 AM

Argle Bargle

So, in order to have peace on Earth, we need to embrace Satan? You're not making a point in favor of your religion, quite the opposite.

6/30/2011 3:38:25 AM

Creedence Leonore Gielgud

It never ceases to amaze me that these people actually believe peace, and stability are bad things. That's what their faith offers: an alternative to a peaceful, happy, productive life. Of course they'd never try to sell it to a potential convert like that. It's the ultimate bait, and switch scam.

6/30/2011 3:43:20 AM

David B.

"Assuming your fact is true"

I love this bit. He goes on to explain how this is entirely to be expected and in accordance with biblical revelation, but he started off expressing reservations about whether it was actually true.

You doubted the bible, Ray? You heretic you!

6/30/2011 3:59:39 AM

Jezebel's Evil Sister

"To embrace secularism is to make peace with Satan."

Sounds like a good plan to me.

6/30/2011 4:04:21 AM


When's the paper coming out then, Ray?

I could do with a really good laugh.

6/30/2011 4:26:59 AM


And this is a bad thing how?
Every time you fundies open your traps, The Big S sound more and more preferable...

6/30/2011 4:34:48 AM


Ray is essentially correct. The world loves its own. As long as the person continues rejecting the truth, Satan will leave that person alone. Why should he bother? That person poses no threat to him.

6/30/2011 4:49:02 AM


So, are you saying that murder rates are so high in the US because of Christianity?

6/30/2011 4:52:57 AM

What's your explanation?

You're a fucking moron, Ray.

6/30/2011 4:53:32 AM

arctic knight

So let me get this straight,

Religion (specifically Xianity) = more violence
No religion = less violence and more peace.

Let's get rid of religion, that's the only logical conclusion.

6/30/2011 5:18:37 AM

Mister Spak

So Jesus=high crime and Satan=low crime.

Tell me again why we want Jesus?

And doesn't this contradict you atheist serial killer rapists druguser pedophiles running amuck scenario?

6/30/2011 5:28:10 AM


Well, my explanation is:

The decrease in violent crime and warfare in Europe is not a direct cause of its secularization. I rather think that both (increasing peace AND secularization) are the consequence of a continent finally finding sanity and reason after century-long madness (a madness which culminated in the most devastating and brutal war ever in human history)

Religion is simply not necessary here in Europe anymore. We still have a lot of people who see religion as important, but especially the youth simply shrug their shoulders on religion: "Visit a ... church service? Who on earth is doing that??? What a strange idea..."

6/30/2011 5:33:47 AM


It's nice that you can squish your mythology into any framework that reality provides. It doesn't make it any more plausible, but it's amusing.

6/30/2011 5:40:36 AM


It's no use arguing with idiots, in their minds, they always win.

6/30/2011 5:43:12 AM


I must admit, Ray, that was actually a really creative answer. You deserve a gold metal for mental gymnastics.

6/30/2011 5:51:05 AM


So wait, being on Satan's side decreases violence and crime? Why the hell are we supposed to like your god again?

6/30/2011 6:05:01 AM

Doubting Thomas

So by your logic, we would all have world peace if we just embraced Satan? Better plan than God has, which apparently is to have everyone fighting everyone as much as possible, each side having him on their side.

6/30/2011 6:08:27 AM


Fundie Beliefs #11 - The Value of Belief

Belief is not always rewarded on earth. Satan tests believers by punishing them with stuff like sex, drugs and money; whereas God tests believers by giving them cancer, having their children raped, and destroying whole cities with volcanoes and earthquakes. God does, however, occasionally reward belief. For example, suppose a good fundamentalist and an atheist both get their legs blown off in a war. For the believer, it’s obviously a reward: God has stepped in and saved him from death. For the atheist, it’s equally obvious that God has taken his legs as a punishment for his disbelief.

Failure to believe can have far-reaching consequences. God hates non-believers, of course, but He often strikes godly people just for standing nearby*. Going to the same school, or living in the same town or even the same country as a non-believer can attract God’s wrath and turn Satan loose on a rampage of letting people actually have fun. That’s why it’s important to phone death threats, kill their dogs and burn crosses on the lawns of atheists and beat up gays and tie them to fence posts to freeze to death so God knows you’re on His team and not theirs and tests your faith by sending the tornado to your town.

* The blasphemous suggestion that God is nearsighted is ridiculous.

6/30/2011 6:25:50 AM


Peace = Satan?
In that case, HAIL SATAN!!

6/30/2011 6:34:27 AM


Is it my imagination, or are the fundies who troll Pharyngula more batshit insane than the fundie population at large?

(And that's saying a lot considering how batshit insane a lot of fundies are...)

6/30/2011 6:34:45 AM

Brendan Rizzo

So nations whose population are not majority Christian are both violent hellholes and advanced, peaceful societies? You just can't win against fundies. Of course, this time he is not really helping his case, so this could backfire on him. (And I hope it does. The less people are fundamentalists of any religion, the better.)

6/30/2011 6:36:14 AM

David G

Sounds like a peaceful winning strategy to me!

6/30/2011 6:39:04 AM

Mrs. Antichrist

Yes because as we all know, the middle east isn't Christian and it's such a peaceful place.

6/30/2011 6:58:43 AM


Oh, is that not sooooooooo convenient for you?

They are evil and thus are allowed to live in peace.

You're such a stupid arse

6/30/2011 7:02:42 AM

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