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No True Scotsman? Clinton's an anti-Christian bigot? Whuh?
I admit that Hitler DID use Christianity to try to justify his actions - he even set up his own Church. He also introduced a Germanic pagan faith, though, so...
EDIT: ...Holy pasta, first?
8/1/2011 2:46:18 AM
GODWIN'D IN THE FIRST WORD!
And the Bible has ALWAYS been rewritten throughout history to suit kings, politicians and dictators. You freepers are especially guilty of lifting messages from it that aren't even there.
8/1/2011 3:04:45 AM
Hmmm. Not In My Back Yard syndrome?
8/1/2011 3:07:25 AM
I've never heard this bit about Hitler rewriting the Bible.
8/1/2011 3:09:02 AM
Granted, Hitler was raised as a Catholic growing up, the jury is still out on whether Hitler truly considered himself Christian as an adult.
There were documented times where he would use Christianity for political gains to win over the hearts and minds of people. He would talk about an "Aryan" Jesus that would come from Heaven and destroy the Jews a la Book of Revelations.
In private life, however, Hitler seemed critical of the organized religion of Christianity. He was also critical about his top Nazi leaders being into the whole pagan/symbolism/mysticism stuff.
But he did not like nor endorse atheism, especially since the opposing political party endorsed it.
For further reading:
Anyway, whether we like it or not, if someone claims they are Christian, then they are and will be catergorized as a Christian. Even if they do henious things for Jesus Christ.
Besides that we(Christians) cannot just disown someone in our religion when they do a henious act, like Anders Breivik for example, but then turn around and state that all people of another religion are like their worst members, such as saying all Muslims are like the 9/11 terrorists.
8/1/2011 3:18:24 AM
Considering all the references to God's work and Jesus in his speeches and personal memoirs I'd say he leaned heavily on his fucked up interpretation of his faith. Yet you reject him out of hand because 'no true Christian' would do the things he did, despite much of it being right there in the Bible.
Oh, and by that logic:
Osama bin Laden isn't a Muslim.
The Pope isn't actually Catholic.
The founding fathers were un-American.
Stalin and Mao aren't actually communists, unless we're going by *your* perception of communism in which case Marx wasn't even slightly marxist.
And there are no knives because mine is so much more a knife than yours.
See, it's just as stupid. Now quit going around telling people what they are and are not.
@ Conservative Communist
I can only speak for myself on this matter, but every time I have ever seen someone claim that Hitler is not Christian they had just finished defining someone else's system of beliefs for them and condemning everything in association with it. I.E. claiming Muslims are literally born to commit 'martyrdom' against Christians, or bringing up the word 'socialist' with wild disregard for the meaning of the word, and then painting anything they touch as irredeemably evil and doomed to corruption. Painting an entire concept in their minds from a single example they find abhorrent
Most Christians can't take being on the other end of the tar brush, not for their entire religion and not even for a single person. Any time such an event turns up they try to write it right out of their minds. Not only do they refuse to allow others to do the same, but one-sidedly determine that the actions being condemned are the very point of said beliefs. To allow others to define a single horrible thing as the doing of a Christian motivated by his beliefs, they believe that taints the entire concept of Christianity.
While I find it increasingly difficult not to categorize Christianity, indeed most religion, as a corrupting influence I am not out to insult it, but rather the double-speak practiced by it's most aggressive elements.
8/1/2011 3:24:05 AM
Indeed, Hitler, idolized by right wing extremists and slavering dickheads, was nominally a Christian, though he had more the outlook and the mental illness of a fundamental cultist, therefore he is best considered as a typically insane fundamental cultist rather than as a Christian.
8/1/2011 3:30:50 AM
A Godwin and a No True Scotsman in the first sentence.
Also a history fail:
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." - Hitler, speech on 12 April 1922.
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." - Hitler, in Mein Kampf.
"The anti-Semitism of the new movement [Christian Social movement] was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge." - Hitler, in Mein Kampf.
I've never heard your claim about Hitler rewriting the Bible, and you provide no source for it.
8/1/2011 3:36:47 AM
Hitler was a believer in the Cult of Hitler...his own cult of personality...Now i know you atheists will use him as an example that all christians or people who call themselves christians are evil; but the fact is Hitler, like most politicians only used Christianity for his own political gain....BUT COME ON...to associate hitler with christianity just because he once called himself one for propaganda is absurd. If a duck calls itself a cow it doesnt make it so.
Boy you people really hate christianity dont you?...most scholars wouldnt even consider Hitler anywhere near being a Christian, based mostly on Hitlers own writings on the subject, and yet you still hurl out the attacks. hitler wasnt re-writting the bible...he was just creating a cult that worshiped HIM, and Nazism
8/1/2011 3:41:52 AM
Rewriting the bible? Isn't that what Andy Schlafly and Conservapedia are doing?
8/1/2011 3:44:37 AM
Just couldn’t wait to fit in some made up shit about Clinton, could you?
8/1/2011 3:46:28 AM
Sweet Fancy Moses
8/1/2011 3:54:56 AM
I am a German, and I have seen Nazis. I'm talking about real Nazis from the real Third Reich, not about one of these clowns from the "Indiana Jones" movies.
Believe me: These guys believed in god. These guys called themselved "Christian". It was a twisted, sick version of christianity, but this does not change the fact the most of them were pious. So don't try the "no real scotsman" argument, please.
It was a twisted, sick christianity like: "You better believe in God, or we will hit you very hard. Remember: As Aryans, we are God's chosen people. He has shown this in our genetical superiority. It is God's will that we rule over the world. But there are the adherents of absolute evil! Those who murdered our Lord and Saviour. We must fight them without remorse! The last days have come, there will be the final battle between Good and Evil. And after that struggle, Good will prevail, and a Thousand Year Reich will reign over the purified world!"
Shock of recognition, anybody? Yep, this is a version of christian eschatology. And this is more or less what motivated Anders Breivik.
Christians, please accept the following: Just because someone "believes" does NOT make him a better person. Your highly praised "faith" does NOT give automatically someone a foundation for ethics and morality.
8/1/2011 3:54:58 AM
Insert pro-Christian Hitler quotes here.
8/1/2011 4:05:17 AM
Percy Q. Shunn
8/1/2011 4:10:20 AM
Hitler sounds like your average televangelist, I feel.
8/1/2011 4:18:58 AM
I understand why you want to rewrite history so Hitler wasn't a christian. It's the same reason white supremecists rewrite history so the holocaust never happened. Hitler was one of yours. Deal
8/1/2011 4:26:41 AM
@ ConservativeCommunist --
Wow, you have all three in your comment: lies, damn lies, and No True Scotsmanning.
8/1/2011 4:36:46 AM
I think Kat S has it about right - we'll never really know what Adolf really thought about such things; he contradicted himself even in private, and quite a bit of his reported Table Talk is of dubious provenance.
I don't really know, per the OP, how one can slander 'the Christian faith', given that there isn't just one, but about 38,000 of them, believing all manner of stuff at wide variance to one another. Perhaps hinckley buzzard might like to contemplate the Christian Identity movement (as referenced recently right here on FSTDT) and tell us whether he thinks they are 'Christian' or not.
8/1/2011 4:36:50 AM
Tell you what, we'll allow that Hitler wasn't a Christian... that ok?
Right... now, about the millions upon millions of Germans who WERE Christians and who were the ones building the camps, herding the Jews (and others) into said camps, exterminating them, supporting the policies that led to the camps and such... and generally turned a blind fucking eye, if not openly endorsed what was going on.
Go on... find a fucking excuse for that!
Fact is, it was a majority Christian nation that did all those fucked up things... and it was the Christian majority that carried them out. Don't EVER try to wash your hands of that.
8/1/2011 4:42:25 AM
Interestingly, Hitler was a Christian and Thomas Jefferson rewrote the Bible. I wonder what Mr. Buzzard would think of that?
8/1/2011 4:42:45 AM
"Hitler was no Christian. He hated Christianity. He was having the Bible rewritten..."
No, I think you're confusing Hitler with Andy Schlafly from Conservapedia.
8/1/2011 5:15:53 AM
Creedence Leonore Gielgud
Hitler may very well have had a very negative opinion of religion in general, and Christianity in particular, in private. He may also have been opposed to racism, loved puppies and kittens, and loved for the neighborhood children to stop by, for him to tell them stories, and fix their bikes, while they sampled sweets that Eva baked. We'll never know, and it doesn't matter.
Whatever he may or may not have believed, or been privately, it is what he was publicly that we went to war against, and will forever remember as being one of, if not the most evil human ever. Publicly he endorsed Christianity, very strongly, and like the rest of his public persona, that's what matters.
8/1/2011 5:16:27 AM
We can argue all day about what it means to be a True™ Christian but to say he hated Christianity is a lie.
@ConservativeCommunist- Now i know you atheists will use him as an example that all christians or people who call themselves christians are evil
You complain about atheists painting Christians with a broad brush and here you do EXACTLY THAT to atheists. I never once in my life said that Christians are evil because of Hitler. And from the comments I've read so far here I haven't seen anyone else say that either.
8/1/2011 5:22:08 AM
Bill Clinton was anti-Christian?
8/1/2011 5:32:17 AM
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