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Quote# 83020

Darwinian biologists are very much like Keynesian economists. It doesn't matter how many times their predictions fail. It doesn't matter how often their models are proven to be wildly wrong. It doesn't matter how many times they have been wrong in the past even with the benefit of margins of error consisting of millions of years. They continue to insist that their position is based on evidence even when the evidence demonstrates precisely the opposite of what they have been claiming.

An evolutionist is one who is continually convinced, despite past experience, that adding just one more series of magic evolutionary epicycles will somehow make the whole system finally begin to function in a coherent and reliably predictive manner.

Vox Day, Vox Popoli 75 Comments [8/4/2011 3:37:50 AM]
Fundie Index: 80
Submitted By: Night Jaguar
WTF?! || meh
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Mrs. Antichrist

It's adorable when they project like this.

8/4/2011 3:39:22 AM

lisamariefan

Kenyensian?

I assume that means....Kenyan or something? What the fuck does some...I don't get it.

8/4/2011 3:41:20 AM

Dante

Strangely, he's precisely right about Keynesian economics. It is largely ineffective and its status as the most predominant economic theory of the 20th and 21st century is perplexing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoxDyC7y7PM

Nonetheless, there have been no objections that have successfully falsified evolution, and there are many that would exist were evolution not true. His argument probably rests on the logical fallacy of "argument from ignorance" and its trustworthy companion "God of the gaps."

8/4/2011 3:44:26 AM

Dante

@lisamariefan

It's funny you say that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBrHkxqNT7s

Keynesianism is the economic philosophy of John Maynard Keynes, hence its name. It emphasizes lower taxes and high spending during recessions and high taxes and low spending during expansion.

People call the Tea Party ignorant but I think they are just largely indicative of the American voting public as a whole, rather than the philosophy of economic liberalism (yes, I'm aware of the irony of that term).

8/4/2011 3:50:19 AM

Raised by Horses

@Dante

Not to mention that ol' humdinger, Bulverism.

8/4/2011 3:55:35 AM

Anon2

Creationists are very much like ultra-hardline communists who defend a "planned economy". Both have a deep urge to submit under the iron fist of a "beloved father" respectively a "beloved comrade" who has anything under control, both would love to see a stagnant, ultra-conservative world where nothing changes forever, and ultimately, both long for the fulfillment of a sacred 6000-year respectively 5-year plan. Creationists as Communists are blind to the principle that the free competition between new random ideas respectively new random mutations leads to the best adaptation in constantly changing environments.

A creationist is one who is continually convinced, despite past experience, that just one more series of magic "intelligent design" epicycles will make the whole system finally begin to function in a coherent manner.

8/4/2011 4:15:06 AM

Prager

He's really talking about creationists, isn't he?

8/4/2011 4:15:28 AM

RapturedbyBlondie

Keynesian economics work just right, thank you. Just compare downturns before and after the 1930s. Of course, deficit spending, which was supposed to be an emergency measure, can be abused, just like anything else can. Right, Mr. Reagan?

8/4/2011 4:19:13 AM

Dante

@RapturedbyBlondie

Keynesian economics does not work in the slightest, and the example you provide is a great example of that. Throughout the New Deal, unemployment remained at 17.2%, and the general economic output wasn't equaled until after World War 2, with the creation of the military industrial complex primarily serving as the cause of economic recovery.

Keynesian doesn't work because the money for stimulus either comes from a) excessive taxes b)lent money or c) "quantitative easing" (i.e. a central bank printing money). All of these actions ultimately hurt the economy. You can't dump a bloated fiat currency into the economy and expect the market to see it as wealth.

8/4/2011 4:27:54 AM

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

Thanks for coming out Vox. They Keynesian economy bit is a nice smoke screen but you're still full of shit.

8/4/2011 4:49:07 AM

Mister Spak

Creationistic biologists are very much like teabagger economists. It doesn't matter how many times their predictions fail. It doesn't matter how often their models are proven to be wildly wrong. It doesn't matter how many times they have been wrong in the past even with the benefit of margins of error consisting of orders of magnitude. They continue to insist that their position is based on evidence even when the evidence demonstrates precisely the opposite of what they have been claiming.

A creationist is one who is continually convinced, despite past experience, that adding just one more series of magic miracles from god will somehow make the whole system finally begin to function in a coherent and reliably predictive manner.

Fixed


8/4/2011 4:53:42 AM

tiktaalik

"...even when the evidence demonstrates precisely the opposite of what they have been claiming."

Attn: Creationists

Simply saying "the evidence" and leaving it at that brings nothing to a discussion. Show us specific examples of this "the evidence." We've been waiting for 150 years.

Sincerely,
a transitional form god never mentioned

8/4/2011 5:09:12 AM

Mister Spak

@Dante:

"Keynesian economics does not work in the slightest, . . ."

Conservatives used free market worship and flushed the economy down the toilet. When the world financial system was 6 hours from collapse it was pulled back from the brink by an action recommended by the same Keynesian economics that ended the great depression.

It seems Keynesian economics works slightly better than free market worship(not to be confused with actual free market theory).

"It is largely ineffective and its status as the most predominant economic theory of the 20th and 21st century is perplexing. "

It makes perfect sense if you remember that it was responsible for saving the bacon of millions of working class americans during the great depression. Even if it's not the best solution it's remembered as THE solution in a very bad time.

"People call the Tea Party ignorant but I think they are just largely indicative of the American voting public as a whole,"

The teabaggers are a distinct group unto themselves. The American people may be generally ignorant, but the teabaggers go beyond that. They are agressivly wrong, being certain of things that are not true. Think of an entire political philosophy with the all the fail and certitude of a creationist.

8/4/2011 5:53:32 AM

Extraintrovert

Nothing amuses me more than someone who speaks with absolute certainty concerning a topic about which they know nothing. Probably why I laugh at myself so often.

8/4/2011 5:56:49 AM

Professor M

@ Dante --

By actual human measures, the New Deal made steady progress until the "free market" crowd pushed for a partial rollback...at which point recovery started floundering until the New Deal was partially reinstated. Yes, it took WWII to complete the recovery -- but for state-managed rather than market reasons.

Free-market "theory" (i.e. doctrine) is premised on the notion that capitalism is external to the state -- which it is not and never has been.

8/4/2011 6:12:28 AM

JohnTheAtheist

It is hard to believe that someone who writes as eloquently as Vox could be so incredibly stupid.

I love that fact that he ridicules science while touting new scientific discoveries. The irony is subtle, and delicious.

8/4/2011 6:25:57 AM

Jamaican Castle

What the heck is an "epicycle", anyway?

8/4/2011 6:33:22 AM

D Laurier

So a evolutionist is a type of YEC?

8/4/2011 6:34:50 AM

Doubting Thomas

Unlike creationists, whose ideas are fully founded in scientific discovery. [/sarcasm]

8/4/2011 6:35:28 AM

Zeus Almighty

Replace "Darwinian" with "Bible-godists," and "Keynsian" with "trickle down" and you've got an accurate statement here.

Edit
For those discounting the effectiveness of Great Depression economic measures, consider that the United States did not embrace Communism or Fascism during this time. There were real dangers, the Bonus Army of tens of thousands of former soldiers camped in D.C. and threats of a coup against the government.
The Works Progress Administration and other actions kept enough people working and fed to prevent a total meltdown. In that regard it was a tremendous success.
It put people to work building infrastructure that still benefits us. I've been on the Appalachian Trail and seen the WPA markers.
Most of the money was spent on infrastructure, building roads, bridges and airports.

8/4/2011 6:57:43 AM



when the evidence demonstrates precisely the opposite

Cite said evidence. Any of it. (One of the problems here, of course, is that by 'evidence' what VD means is 'selectively quoted and ingeniously interpreted bible verses' rather than any, y'know, actual evidence).

8/4/2011 7:20:41 AM

Angua

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the economy (unlike some people, Vox).

But if you are going to compare the accuracy of Keynesian economics to Darwinian evolution, then you're arguing in favor of Keynesian economics. Darwin's theory of evolution is strongly supported by the evidence, no serious scientist working in relevant fields denies it, it has been used to make accurate predictions, and is absolutely fundamental to understanding modern biology.

Vox, are you really trying to say that Keynesian economics is similar to that? Are you really trying to argue that Keynesian economics is so strongly supported that no educated person could deny it and still be considered intelligent or sane? Really?

8/4/2011 7:28:01 AM

Chatvert


8/4/2011 7:42:59 AM



I think you were really trying to talk about the creationists.

8/4/2011 7:43:31 AM

John-in-Oz

@ Mr Spak

In rour reply to Dante you state "When the world financial system was 6 hours from collapse it was pulled back from the brink by an action recommended by the same Keynesian economics that ended the great depression. "

I'm not quite clear which event you mean. The debt limit, the GFC or something else? I note that the debt limit shutdowns under Clinton were largely forgettable incidents, not a shutdown of the world financial system. The GFC was forecast to have horrendous consequences which supposedly required a Keynesian stimulus package to avoid them. But the outcome with the stimulus package has been worse than the forecast of what would happen without it.
As for the great depression, my economics professor taught that it was ended by the second world war, and Keynesian economics extended the depression's duration.

8/4/2011 7:48:20 AM
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