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N. De Plume
First you have to prove to me that you can understand the math involved.
Originally posted by Self-Mutation
I find it very unfair that atheists can cite scientific books as evidence but I can't cite the Bible as evidence
I find it very unfair that Christian fundies can cite the Bible as theological evidence, but I can’t cite Star Wars
You know, it just hit me: You’re correct that I wouldn’t be able to prove anything about the distance to anything to you. Why? Because that would involve Math, and you think that multiplication is a Divine Miracle!
I mean, seriously. No one can work with that.
8/10/2011 10:20:00 AM
It has to do with the fact that the scientific books cite their works. The Bible does not. Scientific books deal with what has been observed, data collected and analysed
8/10/2011 10:20:18 AM
Science is a self-correcting process. Scientists do not take anything on faith; they find out for themselves, and if there findings are different from what is written in textbooks, then they can get what is written in the textbooks changed. You can't do that with the Bible.
And you CAN demonstrate that the sun is that far away without consulting a book. All you have to do is make the same measurements that the original scientists who discovered that fact did. Since science is repeatable, that is how we know it is accurate.
8/10/2011 10:22:16 AM
What if science isn't a conspiracy at all and is just the best method we have for sorting out the universe?
8/10/2011 10:22:37 AM
Scientific writers base their works on their findings and observations of their studies. The Bible was written depicting a god from the perspective of those with limited scientific knowledge. Another thing, if the scientific proclamations of the Bible were true, they would be in fact science, and therefore documented in reputable science textbooks.
But of course, since you insist on making your holy book the Bible to be on par with scientific work, would you also agree with including the Quran as well? Many people hold that in high regard and equal to science.
8/10/2011 10:22:42 AM
Of course I would first quote from a science book to prove that the sun is 93 million miles away, because that would be the most easiest thing.
BUT: If that is not sufficient, as a next step I would take you to an observatory, where we would make the measurements.
Can you do the same thing for example to prove me that your Jesus became alive after being dead for 3 days? No, because you have nothing but your bible and your faith.
8/10/2011 10:25:05 AM
Yes they were both written by humans. But modern science has 2000 + years of advanced knowledge over your bible.
8/10/2011 10:25:05 AM
Bible - written by superstitious, misogynistic, old men that had no concept of the world and were trying to explain it through supernatural means, and filled with multiple scientific inaccuracies. Other than a few bits of history, it cannot be verified.
Science - ever changing, ever questioning, and adding knowledge on top of knowledge, verifiable, testable, falsifiable, and repeatable. NOT a conspiracy by the Illuminati. (People still believe in the illuminati?)
Tell you what; I won't consult a science book to prove the distance from the sun to the earth. I will, however, pay to put you on a missile launched straight for the sun that will measure the distance it travels as it travels. Sadly, I will only be able to pay for a one way trip.
Also, you cannot consult the bible on scientific matters because pi does not equal 3.
8/10/2011 10:26:30 AM
Hey, Self-Mutation: Prove to me you're sane without consulting the DSM-VI. You can't do it.
For that matter, you can't do it with the DSM-VI. Or the Bible, or anything else.
8/10/2011 10:28:49 AM
Face it, if the Illuminati were capable of and competent enough to pull THAT off, they DESERVE to rule the world. Like, NOW.
8/10/2011 10:33:24 AM
I'm glad you agree that the bible was written by humans. Your (non-existent) god had nothing to do with it.
8/10/2011 10:43:36 AM
"How can you say "The Bible writers were wrong" but "the scientific writers are right?"
Because the bible writers are wrong and the scientific writers are right.
"Were both not written by humans? "
Was the Koran not written by humans? Does it therefore have the same credibility as the bible?
"If science is just a conspiracy by the Illuminati, then science can not be relied upon. "
If the bible is just a 6000 year old Sumerian creation myth then the bible can not be relied upon.
"If I told an atheist, "prove to me the sun is 93 million miles away from the Earth without consulting a scientific textbook" you wouldn't be able to do it. "
You are a fucking retard.
"I find it very unfair that atheists can cite scientific books as evidence but I can't cite the Bible as evidence."
I find it very unfair that atheists have to back up their opinions with facts but fundies can blither any idiocy that pops into their heads and nobody is allowed to challenge it.
8/10/2011 10:46:40 AM
Science is based on understanding. We don't expect you to blindly believe what we say about for example the distance between earth and sun because we say so, but because we can actually show that it is true. There is a logical and mathematical string you can follow along until you end up at the result. You can understand it if you aren't a complete retard, you can work it out yourself and prove that the result is actually true. In non-mathematical science, where positive proof is not possible, you can repeatedly demonstrate that you arrive at the same solution, even through different methods, cross-confirming the result.
Religion on the other hand is based on obedience. When you cite the bible, it is different from when we cite scientific evidence, because you just say "it's in there so it must be true, and that's that". You don't show why it is true, how you come to that conclusion, or even that it is actually true. You aren't even allowed to question the thing and that is patently intellectually dishonest because questioning the statement would lead to further inquiry which would show flaws, whereas science is completely based on questioning and thus corrects the results if it finds those flaws. Religion is stuck with all of the flaws it accumulates.
Understanding trumps obedience. Science trumps religion!
8/10/2011 10:48:01 AM
The SCIENTIFIC research used to develop your computer would blow your tiny mind.
8/10/2011 10:50:45 AM
Do you even know what the scientific method is?
8/10/2011 10:51:57 AM
Mutie... eccentricity in Earth's orbit and other empirically observable behaviors in the solar system allow us to readily determine that the sun is roughly 93 million miles away. No book needed. Just basic instrumentation.
Roughly, because if you weren't quote-mining so you can spew inaccuracies, you would know that Earth's orbit isn't perfectly circular, and you might actually have an education.
Now, if creationist nonsense was actually operating on an intellectually sound level, it too would have established research methods, and it would actually change when it's verifiably wrong. It doesn't. You can't verify Creation without slamming your palm on an ancient book, one that's fraught with errors and fallacies. In short, you can't even operate at a grade school level of logic and integrity.
Now go and sit in the corner. You fail logic forever.
8/10/2011 11:12:02 AM
Your book is a contradictory mess of long debunked nonsense. What do you expect? I might as well cite the Flintstones as evidence that (non-avian) dinosaurs co-existed with humans.
8/10/2011 11:25:52 AM
fundie and conspiracy! We've got a twofer!
8/10/2011 11:37:59 AM
ok, this person is definitely a poe. find someone else to post, this isn't funny anymore.
8/10/2011 12:11:28 PM
First, prove to me that you have a brain without consulting a medical or biological text or citing anything that you have learned from such sources. Grab a saw and have at it. Here's a hint: you won't find it in your belly.
8/10/2011 12:13:32 PM
In addition to what everyone else has brought up, science has something else supporting its claims: technology
Science, through its methods, has given us the ability to create things like cars, plastic, bridges, sky scrapers, vaccines, computers, cold beer, radio, plumbing, electricity, irrigation, bubble gum, cruise ships, television, the Internet, printing, power tools, lasers, satellites, air conditioning, hot tubs, airplanes, organ transplants, pizza delivery and instant replay.
What has the bible done for us lately?
8/10/2011 12:14:58 PM
>>If I told an atheist, "prove to me the sun is 93 million miles away from the Earth without consulting a scientific textbook" you wouldn't be able to do it. <<
A measurement of the parallax of Mars with a backyard amateur telescope will give you the distance to the Sun to ~10%.
Observations of a transit of Venus with two such telescopes will give it to ~1%.
If you will come with me to a radio observatory, we will bounce a radar beam off of the solar corona and get the distance to ~0.1% - or bounce beams off of Venus and Mercury and Mars and get it to a part in a million.
Your Argument Is Invalid.
8/10/2011 12:42:23 PM
Because here's an example of Christian evidence.
Jesus walked on the water, many have tried since but can't therefore Jesus is the son of God.
Think I over-simplified religion? Nope, That's it, unproved assertions backed by myth. Science has no truck with such unproven and untested assertions.
And then there's the stuff that's in the Bible itself that is wrong or undecided about. Insects not only never have four legs, ancient depictions and descriptions are accurate outside of the Bible. How wrong can ya be?
8/10/2011 1:04:11 PM
It's because science books are written by people who are, you know, sciency; and the Bible was written by primitive Bronze Age goat herders.
8/10/2011 1:06:12 PM
I'm sick and tired of the Illuminati conspiracy bullshit. If they ruled the world, NO ONE WOULD KNOW ABOUT IT. Secret conspiracies don't work by fucking plastering their name all over the internet.
8/10/2011 1:14:47 PM
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