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Quote# 83495

The question remains: is Gov. Perry right?

What follows is a straightforward, four-step refutation of the theory of evolution. The steps are easy to remember, and make a nice little cadence when spoken with a little rhythm: First Law, Second Law, Fossils and Genes. Armed with this truth, go forth and conquer.

[later on]


Before we even start, we ought to notice that, if evolution is true, there would be no way to know it. Because evolution teaches that everything that exists is the product of the random collision of atoms, this logically includes the thoughts I am thinking about evolution. But if my thoughts are the product of the random collision of atoms, there is no reason to think that any of them are true — they just are.

No one "random collision of atoms" can be said to be truer than another, any more than one randomly generated Rorschach ink blot can be said to be more correct than another.

As J.B.S. Haldane famously observed, "If my mental processes are determined wholly by the motion of atoms in my brain, I have no reason to suppose that my beliefs are true and hence I have no reason for supposing my brain to be composed of atoms."

All right, here we go.

First Law of Thermodynamics. This law (note: not a theory but a scientific law) teaches us that matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed. In other words, an honest scientist will tell you that there is nothing in the observable universe that can explain either the origin of energy or matter. By logical extension, then, matter and energy had to come into being by some force outside the universe.

What this means, then, is that science simply has no explanation for the most basic question that could possibly be asked: why is there something rather than nothing?

Creationists and Intelligent Design advocates have an answer to this question; evolutionists do not.

When you see a turtle on a fence post, what's the one thing you know? Somebody put him there. When you see a world hanging in space, what's the one thing you know? Someone hung it there.

It's futile to resort to the big bang theory, as some evolutionists are wont to do. They say they have an explanation for the origin of the universe: it began when a ball of incredibly dense matter exploded and flung the universe into existence. Okay, fine. Now: where did that incredibly dense ball of matter come from?

Even Aristotle saw that behind the existence of the universe had to be what he called a Prime Mover or an Unmoved Mover. If everything is the result of secondary causes, nothing would ever actually happen. Some great power had to be a primary cause of life, motion, energy, and existence.

If you walk into an office and you see one of those toys with the steel balls swinging left to right, right to left, virtually endlessly, the one thing you will know for an absolute certainty is that some force outside that toy had to start the whole thing by lifting the first ball and releasing it to clack against the others. The process you observe could not possibly have started all by itself.

Creation Science and Intelligent Design theory offers a Prime Mover, evolution does not.

Bryan Fischer, Rightly Concerned 67 Comments [8/31/2011 3:18:56 AM]
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Submitted By: anon87311
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Extraintrovert

I'm calling Poe on this one. Never before have I seen such an extensive and incredibly dense (in terms of density, not stupidity, although there is certainly that) list of long-debunked and/or utterly stupid creationist canards than this. It's as if someone went to the TalkOrigins list of creationist arguments and stuck them all together.

Regardless of whether this is a Poe or not, it still hurts to read such monumental ignorance being presented as fact. But then, if people didn't think their personal opinions were more important than reality then this site would be rather empty.

8/31/2011 3:39:03 AM

Percy Q. Shunn

The question remains: is Gov. Perry right?

The answer is a resounding "NO."

8/31/2011 3:40:31 AM

Radaghast

Well that's a new one on me. I've heard fundies use just about everything to "prove" the existance of God.... office desk toys are a new one on me.

If he's going to apply thermodynamics to such an absurd theory, then one must ask... if this is true, then who/what created God?

8/31/2011 4:01:27 AM

Etiene

@Extraintrovert

If Bryan Fischer is a Poe, then he's playing an exceedingly long con.

8/31/2011 4:04:15 AM

Tempus

@Etiene: not to mention a really deep-cover one, since he's Director of Issues Analysis for the American Family Association.

No, Fischer is the real thing. He really IS this hysterically crazy-stupid

8/31/2011 4:15:09 AM

WWWWolf

> why is there something rather than nothing?
> Creationists and Intelligent Design advocates have an answer to this question; evolutionists do not.

Oh, you answer the question of "Why?", while the scientists do not? Let's see:

> When you see a world hanging in space, what's the one thing you know? Someone hung it there.

That's not a conclusive answer to the question "why?", because the motivations aren't made any clearer. Let's keep asking: why did somebody hung it there?

We don't know the answer to whys. You're making a statement of hows.

> Even Aristotle saw that behind the existence of the universe had to be what he called a Prime Mover or an Unmoved Mover.

Ultimately, the nature of such an entity is completely irrelevant. Why? It will forever remain as an abstract idea. As our understanding of the universe expands, the farther the Prime Mover backs away. The annoying thing about abstract concepts is that the reality paints them in a corner.

Frankly, I do have respect for religious scientists who do realise that scientific, verifiable facts must come before abstract ideas about ultimate causes of everything. But creationists treat the concept of Prime Movers as something that shouldn't even be approached by reasoning. When science has already shown that there are naturalistic explanations for the origin of life and universe, the creationists keep insisting things must be kept abstract, unapproachable and hence unusable for scientific reasoning.

8/31/2011 4:49:53 AM

Lezemotu

EVOLUTION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH COSMOLOGY.

8/31/2011 5:13:23 AM

Mister Spak

It's futile to resort to the goddiddit theory, as some creationists are wont to do. They say they have an explanation for the origin of the universe: it began when a magic man poofed the universe into existence. Okay, fine. Now: where did that magic man come from?

Evolution offers a credible explanation, creation does not.

8/31/2011 5:14:20 AM

Anon2

When you see a turtle on a fence post, what's the one thing you know? Somebody put him there. When you see a world hanging in space, what's the one thing you know? Someone hung it there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granular_convection

When you open your package of cereals, and find the brazil nuts at the top, what does that say to you? That someone must have put them there? Was there some "intelligent sorter" who sorted the nuts when they were transported to the supermarket?

Or is it too difficult to comprehend for a fundie mind that there was nobody who sorted the nuts, but rather the process of random vibrations together with gravitational gradient which sorted the nuts?

8/31/2011 5:20:26 AM

SpukiKitty

....Or, Mr. Fisher, you can be like me & see the Universe as Deity who's existed eternally, expanding & contracting...creating & destroying itself before recreating again, like the mythical phoenix...a process with no begining or end, it just IS...The most rational Theists are those who's Theism is Pantheist/Monist in nature. All is one, the so-called "Spiritual", "Supernatural" & "Paranormal" are as natural as matter. Like Ultraviolet & Infrared is to regular Light & Color so is the Incorporeal to the Corporeal.
Thus, in the sense of Deity as some independent God/Gods & Goddesses floating about in the sky, I'm an Atheist.
Now...Theists, Atheists, Pantheists, Panatheists & Agnostics...can't we just all get along?

...And to Fischer & other Fundies, can't you just al GET BENT?

8/31/2011 5:23:12 AM

shykid

Bryan Fischer done completely lost his mind. Time to put him in an old-folks home.

8/31/2011 5:31:29 AM

dionysus

evolution teaches that everything that exists is the product of the random collision of atoms

No. Nuclear fission is the result of atoms colliding, moron, and that's not random either. Evolution teaches that a population's alleles change over time and that ain't random.

note: not a theory but a scientific law

So? All that means is that it's universally applicable. Life hasn't been observed anywhere but on Earth so ToE can't be a law. Otherwise we're stating that evolution happens on every planet with life on it and that's yet to be verified.

Creationists and Intelligent Design advocates have an answer to this question

"Magic man done it" is no better an answer than "an interdimensional rhino took a dump and that was our universe". Sure, it's AN answer but that doesn't make it a CORRECT answer.

When you see a turtle on a fence post, what's the one thing you know? Somebody put him there.

Let's assume that's the only explanation. Still, it happened naturally and was done by humans. It's a non-sequitur to then use this example to claim that a supernatural non-human put us in the universe. That'd be like saying "All claw marks are made by animals therefore this one was made by the ghost of an alien from a different dimension.".

Okay, fine. Now: where did that incredibly dense ball of matter come from?

That, my friend, would be your brain and I think it came out of your ass.

If you walk into an office and you see one of those toys with the steel balls swinging left to right, right to left, virtually endlessly, the one thing you will know for an absolute certainty is that some force outside that toy had to start the whole thing by lifting the first ball and releasing it to clack against the others.

Again, you can't use a natural cause and use that as evidence of a supernatural cause.

8/31/2011 5:33:47 AM

anevilmeme

How hard is it to look up what the words theory and law mean?

8/31/2011 5:40:56 AM

Table Rock

is Gov. Perry right?

No, no about anything.

Because evolution teaches that everything that exists is the product of the random collision of atoms

Evolution has nothing to do with the collision of atoms, random or otherwise.

Creationists and Intelligent Design advocates have an answer to this question;

No, you really don't.

Creation Science and Intelligent Design theory offers a Prime Mover

So where did the "Prime Mover" come from? It had to come from somewhere. It's funny how you insist that everything has to come from somewhere except where it punches holes in your own theories.

8/31/2011 6:12:47 AM

Doubting Thomas

What follows is a straightforward, four-step refutation of the theory of evolution. The steps are easy to remember...

That's good, because you fundies don't seem to have the brain power to think very hard.

if evolution is true, there would be no way to know it.

You've obviously never used the scientific method.

When you see a world hanging in space, what's the one thing you know? Someone hung it there.

And why does that "someone" always have to be the Lord God Almighty?

where did that incredibly dense ball of matter come from?

Where did God come from?

The process you observe could not possibly have started all by itself.

Because you can't explain how the universe began does not mean that God made it and is the supreme ruler of the universe, whose son Jesus died for our sins, everything in the bible is true, and we should persecute gays and vote Republican. But that's the conclusion that fundie Christians always come up with.

8/31/2011 6:21:54 AM

Reynardine

The reason there is something rather than nothing is that, by definition, nothing doesn't exist.

8/31/2011 6:41:09 AM

Brendan Rizzo

Well it seems that someone doesn't understand the laws of thermodynamics...

Also, I have come across these exact arguments, practically word-for-word, in a book of Christian apologetics aimed at schoolchildren. I think there has been some plagiarism going on.

8/31/2011 6:47:19 AM

Anon

Creationist, so ignorant they actually think they get science!

8/31/2011 7:04:14 AM

Anon-e-moose

"What follows is a straightforward, four-step refutation of the theory of evolution."
tl;dr...

(*Switches to Doug Piranha mode*):

Where were you, nearly six years ago, when the defence team in Kitzmiller vs. Dover needed you?

Don't you think that Michael Behe - himself a Professor of Biochemistry, no less - would have considered that, in thinking up possibly credible testimony material to use in favour of said defence?:



...and he completely bollocksed up, as you can see above.

"Creation Science and Intelligent Design theory offers a Prime Mover, evolution does not."

Kitzmiller vs. Dover set the precedent. As far as Constitutional law is concerned, it's set in stone. Unless you fancy overthrowing the White House, Capitol Building & Supreme Court, that is. Five words: Army. Navy. Air Force. Marines.

As a result of KvD, Evolution is fact. 'Intelligent Design' (and thus by definition, Creationism) is lies. The law says so (PROTIP: Romans 13:1-5)

Deal with it.

--EDIT--

@Michael

"I hope this is a poe, otherwise the sheer stupidity would refute the notion of natural selection..."

There's a reason why those in the Bible Belt don't accept Evolution:



Because it hasn't happened there yet. >:D

8/31/2011 7:28:21 AM

Noneofyourbusiness

"Because evolution teaches that everything that exists is the product of the random collision of atoms"

Evolution teaches nothing on the subject of atomic collisions whatsoever! You can't even give the proper name of the theory you are attacking! Do you work at being this pathetic?! Words have meanings, you cannot just lump all scientific theories that non-fundies tend to hold together!

8/31/2011 7:55:41 AM

nazani14

He's Director of Issues Analysis for the American Family Association? I used google to look at the street view of their fabulous HQ in Tupelo. Now I understand why he thinks that office desk toy technology was frozen in time in 1965.

8/31/2011 8:13:46 AM



Creation Science and Intelligent Design theory offers a Prime Mover, evolution does not.
Creationists and Intelligent Design advocates have an answer to this question; evolutionists do not.

"God did it" is not a scientific answer. Not even near it. You cannot use that until you prove the guy exists.

8/31/2011 8:26:45 AM

Michael

I hope this is a poe, otherwise the sheer stupidity would refute the notion of natural selection...

8/31/2011 8:59:54 AM

Noneofyourbusiness

@Michael
As usual, it's not a Poe. Check out the other comments.

8/31/2011 9:29:12 AM

Berny

My, but that is a lot of concentrated retard right there.
By the way, matter can be created and destroyed all the time, it's energy that can neither be created nor destroyed.
Can't you fundies ever get anything right (except your political orientation)?

8/31/2011 9:30:01 AM
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