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Quote# 83503

Is heliocentricity an anti-Christian hoax and the "official" adoption of the Copernican model a slap in the face of established religion?
Astrology has for ages used the geocentric model with no problems so I think if there was a problem with it, the practitioners of astrology would have switched a long time ago.
Ptolemy came up with a good model based on what would have been good science of his day and it was used for a long time.
Most astronomers were resistant to the Copernican model when it came out.
Newtonian gravitation does not really work perfectly to describe the motions of the planets.
Galileo and the invention of the telescope are touted by the adherents of the Copernican model as the death nell to geocentrism but all it proved was that the inner planets, Mercury and Venus, orbit the sun, as can be deduced by the phases similar to what the moon experiences. Mercury is a small rock, and the large Venus is gaseous, so no great mass is required to hold them.
The earth has a very dense core and is enough to hold the sun, which is not much more than a hollow plasma field, in orbit.
Jeffrey Grupp is offering a $200 reward to someone who can prove that the earth orbits the sun and not the other way around. So there must be something to this, and people may want to rethink their notions about our world and the people living on it, who are the crowning achievement of God's creation and that we were put into the center of that creation.

jmdewey60, Above Top Secret 86 Comments [8/30/2011 3:39:03 AM]
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Murdin

Newtonian gravitation does not really work perfectly to describe the motions of the planets.

The earth has a very dense core and is enough to hold the sun, which is not much more than a hollow plasma field, in orbit.

HERPADERP NEWTONIAN GRAVITATION IS A MYTH BUT EARTH NEEDS TO BE HEAVY TO HOLD THE SUN MY BULLSHIT HAS ABSOLUTELY NO PRETENSE OF CONSISTENCY.

*aneurises*

8/30/2011 4:04:06 AM



"Mercury is a small rock"

Relatively so, yes... congratulations.

"the large Venus is gaseous"

Eh... no. It's a bloody big rock, and not a porous one either.

"The earth has a very dense core"

Relative to what? Neutron star, maybe? Not that dense after all.

"is enough to hold the sun"

O.O!?! You're not going to suggest...

"which is not much more than a hollow plasma field"

Oh fuck me... you did. You complete fucking arse. (we know it is not hollow, and we know full well that such a FUCKING HUGE ball of gas has a FUCKING HUGE weight/mass. Would you like to make a guess as to how strong the gravity of Earth would be to hold that in obit around it?? You wouldn't be here)

"Jeffrey Grupp is offering a $200 reward to someone who can prove that the earth orbits the sun and not the other way around."

Mars... the only way it's orbit makes sense is if it orbits the sun, not us... and even then, only if we orbit the sun. Why? Because it doesn't get close enough to match the sun orbiting us, and what we see doesn't match it orbiting us.

Where's my $200 then? (small reward, huh?)

8/30/2011 4:06:51 AM

the old firm

Uh Wow. If delusion behaved like gravity, jmdewey60 would be the center of a localized Black Hole.

8/30/2011 4:08:35 AM

Extraintrovert

Please tell me this is a poe. Please. I can't even laugh at this. I don't think I want to live on a planet where anyone is seriously considering that the sun orbits the Earth. I wouldn't want to, in any case.

8/30/2011 4:13:13 AM

Brendan Rizzo

Of course, the reason that astrologers still follow the geocentric model is because astrology is a load of bull crap. This has been proven countless times, but do people listen? No, they just move the goalposts just like they do for every other pseudoscience in existence. For instance, there are still people, apparently, who believe the Sun revolves around the Earth. But really, there is so much evidence for heliocentricity that only an idiot or a charlatan would still deny it in the twenty-first century. Yeah, most astronomers were originally resistant to the idea, but the same applies to all scientific theories, because initial skepticism is required to do proper science. This person also GROSSLY underestimates the mass of planets and the Sun, so there is probably no hope for him. That, and the fact that this is posted on Above Top Secret.

8/30/2011 4:16:36 AM

checkmate

BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, and even more BULLSHIT!

Nothing rotates around anything.

Everybody knows that the earth is being carried by a huge turtle who's riding an elephant's back.

The lights (sun, moon, planets) are being pulled across the sky by gods, or MAY EVEN BE THE GODS THEMSELVES.

(We can't be too sure about that last part and have to be very cautious about what we assume.)

8/30/2011 4:21:03 AM

TB Tabby

Wow. SO much fail.

Is heliocentricity an anti-Christian hoax and the "official" adoption of the Copernican model a slap in the face of established religion?

No and no.

Astrology has for ages used the geocentric model with no problems so I think if there was a problem with it, the practitioners of astrology would have switched a long time ago.

They didn't have any problems because astrology is bunk, so it doesn't matter which model they use.

Ptolemy came up with a good model based on what would have been good science of his day and it was used for a long time.

But it was wrong, just the same. Incorrect notions can be thought to be correct for a long time before they're found out. That's why scientist aren't so arrogant as to claim they've got it all figured out, unlike Cretinists.

8/30/2011 4:23:16 AM

TB Tabby

Most astronomers were resistant to the Copernican model when it came out.

That's because good scientists are skeptical of ALL new ideas. But as evidence came in that supported the heliocentric model, acceptance grew. Remember that, CDesign Proponentsists. Scientists are open to new ideas when the evidence supports them and you don't try to shoehorn them into classrooms.

Newtonian gravitation does not really work perfectly to describe the motions of the planets.

Which is why we use the theory of relativity to describe the motions of the planets.

Galileo and the invention of the telescope are touted by the adherents of the Copernican model as the death nell to geocentrism but all it proved was that the inner planets, Mercury and Venus, orbit the sun, as can be deduced by the phases similar to what the moon experiences. Mercury is a small rock, and the large Venus is gaseous, so no great mass is required to hold them.

Mercury is only small compared to the other planets, and Venus is not a gas giant.

8/30/2011 4:24:20 AM

TB Tabby

The earth has a very dense core and is enough to hold the sun, which is not much more than a hollow plasma field, in orbit.

The sun is not hollow, and its mass is 330,000 times that of Earth.

Jeffrey Grupp is offering a $200 reward to someone who can prove that the earth orbits the sun and not the other way around.

Astronomers know a sham contest when they see one. It was the same with Kent Hovind's million dollar challenge: you can never win the money because he'll never accept any evidence anyone presents.

So there must be something to this, and people may want to rethink their notions about our world and the people living on it, who are the crowning achievement of God's creation and that we were put into the center of that creation.

There's that "Christian humility." You dislike Heliocentricism because it suggests that humans may not be the single most important thing the in the universe. Get over yourself.

8/30/2011 4:24:52 AM

Meishayuri

Let's change reality to meet our needs. $200 reward? Wow! The things I could buy with that pile of riches!

8/30/2011 4:31:59 AM

Jezebel's Evil Sister

"Jeffrey Grupp is offering a $200 reward to someone who can prove that the earth orbits the sun and not the other way around."

But, what are all those first-graders going to do with $200?

8/30/2011 4:42:39 AM

fmitchell

Astrologers and some crank with $200 believe the sun orbits the earth, and that's good enough for me!

8/30/2011 4:59:56 AM

Mister Spak

"enough to hold the sun, which is not much more than a hollow plasma field, in orbit. "

What's a hollow plasma field?

"Jeffrey Grupp is offering a $200 reward to someone who can prove that the earth orbits the sun and not the other way around."

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/science/jan-june11/solar_02-08.html

"So there must be something to this,"

The only thing 'to this' is your mental malfunctions.

8/30/2011 5:04:50 AM

WhiteNoise

$200 for showing proof to idiots who keeps shifting the goalposts?

Not worth it.

8/30/2011 5:12:29 AM

furbearingbrick

Why do I have the feeling Grupp's "challenge" is as hopelessly rigged as Hovind's was? http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind.html
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind#.24250.2C000_challenge

8/30/2011 5:15:54 AM



Except that astrology did switch over to the Copernican model. The whole purpose of the Copernican modal was to make work easier for astrologers. It wasn't until Galileo that anyone tried to say that the universe actually worked that way.

8/30/2011 5:16:56 AM

Darwin

Wow, he put up an entire $200 smackeroos! Must be serious.

8/30/2011 5:27:58 AM

Tempus

The earth has a very dense core and is enough to hold the sun, which is not much more than a hollow plasma field, in orbit.

You're actually going with that "gas weighs less than rock" bit. Okay.

If I asked you which weighs more, a pound of lead or a ton of feathers, I'm pretty sure you'd go with the lead. If only I were a little less ethical than I am, I'd be able to make tons of money off of people just like you.

8/30/2011 5:50:37 AM

Reynardine

I would never attempt to prove anything to these mean-minded delusionals for a paltry two hundred dollars.

8/30/2011 5:51:03 AM

Raised by Horses

Yes, it's the biggest hoax in human history, costing countless man-hours, vigintillions (yes, that's a real word) of dollars annually and requiring all scientific institutions on the planet to work together to pull the wool over the eyes of every layman, woman and child on Earth, all because they really hate Christianity.

Or they could just be telling the goddamn truth.

8/30/2011 5:55:12 AM

dionysus

Newtonian gravitation does not really work perfectly to describe the motions of the planets.

Good thing that we use the Theory of Relativity then which was accepted because it was so accurate in predicting the motions of the planets.

Mercury is a small rock, and the large Venus is gaseous, so no great mass is required to hold them.

Venus is nearly the same size as Earth with a similar composition (rock). They don't call it our sister planet because it joined a convent.

the sun, which is not much more than a hollow plasma field

How would that even work? Gravity draws things together which, in the context of a hollow sphere, means inward which in turn means the Sun would have collapsed in on itself a long time ago and simply became a star with a smaller radius.

Jeffrey Grupp is offering a $200 reward

He can keep it. It wouldn't be worth the resulting brain damage I'd get from facepalming so hard.

8/30/2011 5:55:58 AM



I'd add that the geocentric tropical zodiac is a tolerably good planting calendar for the North Temperate Zone, which is what it was intended for. If you think it guides your life in anything else, you had better pray to the Great God Burpee, which, for a plate contribution of $30 or less, will give you earthly rewards of either various garden seed collections, tomato and herb kits, or Alpine strawberry plants.

8/30/2011 6:02:13 AM

Noneofyourbusiness

"Astrology has for ages used the geocentric model with no problems so I think if there was a problem with it, the practitioners of astrology would have switched a long time ago. "

You're forgetting that astrology is bunk.

"The earth has a very dense core and is enough to hold the sun, which is not much more than a hollow plasma field, in orbit. "

The Sun is so much more massive than the Earth that it isn't even funny.

8/30/2011 6:09:44 AM

The_L

Astrology?

Seriously? You're basing your "Biblical" ideas on a method of star-based divination?

I don't even know where to begin explaining how wrong that is.

8/30/2011 6:12:01 AM

Doubting Thomas

Astrology has for ages used the geocentric model with no problems so I think if there was a problem with it, the practitioners of astrology would have switched a long time ago.

That's because astrology is just a bunch of made-up bullshit. Do you actually think the people printing horoscopes in the newspapers are looking through telescopes to see where the planets are?

Jeffrey Grupp is offering a $200 reward to someone who can prove that the earth orbits the sun and not the other way around.

Whoa! A whole $200? He must be totally convinced of geocentrism. I bet he has a bunch of impossible stipulations like Kent Hovind used to have for his "prove evolution" challenge.

Frankly, if I wanted to destroy Christianity, there are far easier ways than a worldwide "heliocentrism hoax" or "evolution hoax" conspiracy theory.

8/30/2011 6:18:46 AM
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