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Quote# 83681

The air we breathe cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched, yet it most certainly exists. The force of gravity cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched, yet we know that it exists. Emotions, values, beliefs, and thoughts cannot be found by using any of our senses, yet they are as real as rocks or trees. Emotions can be "felt", but this feeling is not physical. Thus, simply because something cannot be found through the use of the five senses does not mean that it does not exist.

Some atheists say that no God has been found through the use of the senses, therefore no God exists. But simply because God cannot be found by way of the senses does not mean that He does not exist. Christians believe in a supernatural or non-material God. They believe that God has manifested Himself in material form and in material ways on certain occasions (such as the Incarnation, and when He spoke audibly to Moses at Mount Sinai). However, God is spirit (John 4:24), and in His "normal" state He cannot be found by the use of the senses. Therefore, any attempt to reach God by way of the senses would be virtually pointless.



angelslight79 , Glitter Graphics.com 84 Comments [9/8/2011 3:41:35 AM]
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Pup

Yet all of these phenomena can be detected with appropriate equipment and are demonstrably physical.

Wait, is this guy arguing that physical evidence of God can't exist?

9/8/2011 3:50:34 AM

Pule Thamex

However, we can sense that Bible God, if He does indeed exist, is, apart from being invisible, a complete and utter arsehole. We know this because of the negative and dehumanizing effects He has on His drooling followers.

9/8/2011 3:53:25 AM



"The air we breathe cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched, yet it most certainly exists"

Drive a convertable... feel that wind? That's the air... See the way hair moves? That's the air... Hear the wind rushing past your ears? That's the air...

You have just touched, heard and seen the air you breathe, you fuckwit!

"The force of gravity cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched, yet we know that it exists."

Hold your hand out with a bottle of water in it... keep holding it out for about 5 minutes. Hard to do, isn't it? You can feel the weight of the bottle dragging your hand down, can't you? That's Gravity you are feeling there.

Now drop the bottle... see how it just fell to the ground? That's Gravity you just saw!

"Emotions, values, beliefs, and thoughts cannot be found by using any of our senses, yet they are as real as rocks or trees. Emotions can be "felt", but this feeling is not physical."

Values and beliefs are abstract concepts... they have no reality. Thoughts have been observed, as have emotions.

And believe me, you can feel the physical effects of emotions... like the way some fundies feel all light and joyful when they "feel" the spirit... that's the physical effect of the chemicals that cause that emotion.

"Thus, simply because something cannot be found through the use of the five senses does not mean that it does not exist."

But all you've done is give us examples of things that CAN be found through the 5 senses... what the fuck is your point?!?

9/8/2011 3:55:40 AM

Shax

Air can be measured and its physical properties assessed. Gravity can be analyzed and calculated. Emotions have real and measurable effects on our behavior--every military in the history of mankind understood what "morale" is.

Your analogy is invalid.

9/8/2011 4:07:37 AM



All of those things have scientific explanations and evidence. God does not. There are psycological and anthropological explanations for religion and belief, however.

9/8/2011 4:09:15 AM

Percy Q. Shunn

Wow; you are one stupid cunt.

9/8/2011 4:09:53 AM


chaosof99

"The air we breathe cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched, yet it most certainly exists."

Air can be seen. Ever seen a tornado? How about a wind turbine? Ever blown out a candle?

Air can be heard. Ever heard the howl of the wind. Ever whistled? Or used any wind instrument?

Taste is kind of hard with a gas, I grant you that. However, people have used "the taste of the air" figuratively for ages.

The air we breath can be smelled too. In fact, it is the medium through which smells most commonly propagate!

It can also be felt. Ever felt the wind blowing in your hair? Ever used a hairdryer.

Gravity can be observed. We see it every time someone drops a coffee-mug or any other object, or when someone jumps in the air.

You can also feel the acceleration if you fall.

You can also hear the results of gravity, e.g. when someone drops the coffee mug and it shatters on impact.

Emotions can also be observed through the behavior of humans, their facial expressions, etc. The same with values, beliefs and thoughts (which are three words for the same thing really) when people express them.

We can all of those find through our five senses. God apparently can not and your argument fails horribly.

9/8/2011 4:49:48 AM

Mister Spak

"The air we breathe cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched, yet it most certainly exists."

We have pressure gauges, and airflow sensors.

" The force of gravity cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched, yet we know that it exists."

We have scales.

"Emotions can be "felt", but this feeling is not physical."

We have FMRIs.

"But simply because God cannot be found by way of the senses does not mean that He does not exist. "

Show me a god-o-meter.

Oh, you can't? You fail.

9/8/2011 4:50:12 AM

Anon2

Either this god does affect this world, and then he is not supernatural.

Or this god does not affect this world in any way, and then he is irrelevant.

Btw:

Regarding air: Tornadoes, anybody?
Regarding gravity: So you won't mind jumping from a bridge, "angelslight79"?
Regarding emotions are allegedly not physical: Rapid heartbeat, sweat, trembling are then not physical?

9/8/2011 4:53:37 AM

Doctor Whom

Some aunicornists say that no Invisible Pink Unicorn has been found through the use of the senses, therefore no Invisible Pink Unicorn exists. But simply because the Invisible Pink Unicorn cannot be found by way of the senses does not mean that She does not exist. Unicornists believe in a supernatural or non-material Invisible Pink Unicorn. They believe that the Invisible Pink Unicorn has manifested Herself in material form and in material ways on certain occasions (as revealed in a holy book for which no corroborating evidence exists). However, the Invisible Pink Unicorn is spirit (another reference to said holy book), and in Her "normal" state She (ever so conveniently) cannot be found by the use of the senses. Therefore, any attempt to reach the Invisible Pink Unicorn by way of the senses would be virtually pointless.

9/8/2011 5:03:51 AM

The_L

Um...where's the fundie? This is the way most sensible religious people think. Belief in the absence of evidence is kind of what the word "faith" means.

9/8/2011 5:14:54 AM

Big Jilm

So all gods exist then? Since they can't be perceived with the five senses?

Goddamn you fuckers are gullible.

9/8/2011 5:26:22 AM

Prager

As "god" is almost probably a mythical entity, any attempt to "reach" this entity would be virtually pointless. (FIXED!)


9/8/2011 5:35:58 AM

cdcdrr

Obvious cop-out is obvious.

9/8/2011 5:37:35 AM

dionysus

Not everything is verified through the five senses (not directly anyway). Some things can be verified through interactions that cause a physical event in a different entity. For example, we can't see gravity but we can sure as hell see our feet always stuck to the Earth when we're standing and we can see a ball fall when we toss it. But the absolute best verification possible in science is application and we've been using gravity, air, and emotion to accomplish things for at least as long as civilization has existed and emotion especially has been manipulated since even before humans existed. So, what are the practical applications of god?

9/8/2011 5:46:16 AM

Noneofyourbusiness

@The L

"Sensible"? Belief in the absence of evidence is the opposite of "sensible", literally, as the word "sensible" refers to people using their senses.

The fundy is in presenting this non sequitur as some kind of counterargument against non-religious people. Angelslight79 talks about various things which are in fact physical and evincible and then says they support the exist of something which is neither.

9/8/2011 6:14:06 AM

Creedence Leonore Gielgud

"Thus, simply because something cannot be found through the use of the five senses"

Actually humans in general have up to about 20 identified senses. Physiology has come a long way since Aristotle's time. That you'd be spouting off his ideas like they were still cutting edge, isn't a surprise though. Creationists are all quiet fond of all those newfangled bronze/iron age ideas.

9/8/2011 6:25:31 AM

Horsefeathers

"The air we breathe cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched, yet it most certainly exists."

I can be heard. It can be felt. When air isn't present we notice pretty quickly when we begin to suffocate. It can also be seen indirectly. All of that is called "evidence." Something which you have none of for your god.

"The force of gravity cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched, yet we know that it exists."

Again, the effect of gravity is experienced daily by everyone directly. Simple experiments can be designed to look for gravity (i.e., drop something; what does it do?). Science studies it and mathematics have been used to describe it because it's a real phenomenon. Yet again, you can't do any of this for your god.

"Emotions, values, beliefs, and thoughts cannot be found by using any of our senses, yet they are as real as rocks or trees. Emotions can be "felt", but this feeling is not physical."

There are various devices that can allow us to "see" the way emotion is created within the brain as they happen. We can see emotion on the face of someone else. All emotions seem to be universal and the same or similar in everyone. Where is similar evidence for your god?

"[...] Therefore, any attempt to reach God by way of the senses would be virtually pointless."

Yet mental telepathy through prayer is supposed to work for some strange reason. Odd that.

9/8/2011 6:38:35 AM

Anon-e-moose

"The air we breathe cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched, yet it most certainly exists. The force of gravity cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched, yet we know that it exists. Emotions, values, beliefs, and thoughts cannot be found by using any of our senses, yet they are as real as rocks or trees. Emotions can be "felt", but this feeling is not physical. Thus, simply because something cannot be found through the use of the five senses does not mean that it does not exist.

Some atheists say that no God has been found through the use of the senses, therefore no God exists. But simply because God cannot be found by way of the senses does not mean that He does not exist. Christians believe in a supernatural or non-material God. They believe that God has manifested Himself in material form and in material ways on certain occasions (such as the Incarnation, and when He spoke audibly to Moses at Mount Sinai). However, God is spirit (John 4:24), and in His "normal" state He cannot be found by the use of the senses. Therefore, any attempt to reach God by way of the senses would be virtually pointless."

A rainbow doesn't actually physically exist, but it can be seen.

[/smartarse]

Haruhi Suzumiya only exists in light novels/anime...:



...but at least we can see her. And she is God.

[/smartarse II]

9/8/2011 6:43:20 AM



So God is inaudible, untouchable, odourless, invisible, bland and consequently unimaginable. Furthermore there is no credible evidence that he ever manifested himself physically. And you wonder why people have difficulty believing in him?

9/8/2011 6:44:15 AM

Doubting Thomas

This is the worst argument for God that I've ever heard. Of course air and gravity can be detected and even measured. God cannot be measured or detected using anything at all.

The thing that annoys me about this stupid argument is that, aside from only being effective at convincing touchy-feely emotional people who already believe, is that they're effectively arguing that since God can't be detected by any of the senses it proves that he's real. It's basically shifting the burden of proof by claiming, "You can't prove that he's not real!" Also, it shows a total lack of scientific understanding about the real world if you claim that air cannot be touched, seen, or smelt. And finally, Christians always use this as proof of Yahweh, but for some reason it never pertains to any other gods.

9/8/2011 6:59:01 AM



No but it can be observed you jackass.

And your god had no problem revealing himself in the scripture...why is he so scared to do it now?

9/8/2011 7:09:27 AM

LAchlan

You can feel the wind that's made of air. You can feel the weight of yourself on the soles of your feet, that's gravity. Next!

9/8/2011 7:12:17 AM

Meishayuri

Did you ever consider that the reason you cannot feel or sense god with your senses is because he doesn't exist?

9/8/2011 7:13:11 AM
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