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Quote# 83681

The air we breathe cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched, yet it most certainly exists. The force of gravity cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched, yet we know that it exists. Emotions, values, beliefs, and thoughts cannot be found by using any of our senses, yet they are as real as rocks or trees. Emotions can be "felt", but this feeling is not physical. Thus, simply because something cannot be found through the use of the five senses does not mean that it does not exist.

Some atheists say that no God has been found through the use of the senses, therefore no God exists. But simply because God cannot be found by way of the senses does not mean that He does not exist. Christians believe in a supernatural or non-material God. They believe that God has manifested Himself in material form and in material ways on certain occasions (such as the Incarnation, and when He spoke audibly to Moses at Mount Sinai). However, God is spirit (John 4:24), and in His "normal" state He cannot be found by the use of the senses. Therefore, any attempt to reach God by way of the senses would be virtually pointless.



angelslight79 , Glitter Graphics.com 84 Comments [9/8/2011 3:41:35 AM]
Fundie Index: 49
WTF?! || meh
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aaa

It's quite interesting to see how naive children can get.

9/8/2011 7:23:22 AM



Can't it be measured?, kid, what physics class did you miss at school?

9/8/2011 7:30:07 AM

Osiris

Not really fundie. God is an incorporeal, undetectable entity. Or in science talk, an unfalsifiable hypothesis. Meaning that every time skeptics find something that doesn't conform to stated religious beliefs on God, they can just redefine what God is, because there is no definite way to describe God, because he's made up.

9/8/2011 7:48:46 AM

Brendan Rizzo

Thing is, the air can most definitely be touched. What the hell do you think the wind is?! We know that gravity exists because, well, the law of gravity exists to explain the simple adage, "What goes up, must come down". Also, emotions can be detected, if you're hooked up to one of those neurological instruments that monitor brain activity. No one is saying that things such as love and hope do not exist because they aren't physical; that's absurd because they can be felt, objectively, and cannot be mistaken for anything else. Religious experiences can and have been mistaken for mundane things. I believe that there is a part of the brain which, if stimulated, produces such feelings. If that is true then people will REALLY need to reexamine religion if it is going to survive at all in the modern world.

9/8/2011 7:54:37 AM

Justanotheratheist

Without air we'd be dead. Without gravity we'd float off the ground.

God, on the other hand, serves no purpose that cannot be fulfilled in some other way. There is nothing that cannot be explained in a manner which excludes invisible deities from the equation.

9/8/2011 7:54:46 AM

Extraintrovert

[citation fucking needed]

Also, Doctor Whoom wins the comments.

9/8/2011 8:08:28 AM

John

Therefore, any attempt to reach God by way of the senses would be virtually pointless.

But if God wanted to be reached, as Christians seem to believe, He certainly could manifest Himself to the senses. It's not just that he doesn't manifest Himself to the senses - He appears not to manifest Himself in any way whatsoever. There's no evidence that He answers prayers or that religious people are spared natural disasters. There seems to be a correlation between a society's belief in God and measures of its social dysfunction, such as murder rates, divorce rates and crime rates, which suggests worshiping God actually makes a society worse.

Furthermore, there are thousands of different religions, each one claiming to know how to influence God's actions toward us. One says you have to face Mecca and chant words in Arabic five times a day. Another says you can't eat chicken and cheesecake with the same fork or change TV channels on Saturday. A third says you have to confess your sins to a priest and eat a wafer. This alone seems to be pretty good proof that even if God exists, we either have no influence over Him or no one knows how. And that makes His existence irrelevant.

9/8/2011 8:27:58 AM

ChakatBlackstar

Air can be, felt, it can quantified, it can be captured, removed, manipulated, analyzed, broken down to it's molecules, it's atoms. God cannot be quantified, captured, removed, manipulated, analyzed, ect. You fail.

9/8/2011 8:38:02 AM

Zeus Almighty

Replace "god" with "tooth fairy" and see whether this still makes sense.
I know for a fact that when I was a kid, every time I lost a tooth there was money under my pillow the next day and the tooth was gone.
Although I suspect my parents did this, I never caught them.
Therefore, there's more evidence for the tooth fairy than for god.
Plus, The Rock was in that movie about a tooth fairy.

9/8/2011 8:45:33 AM

Lucilius

"The air we breathe cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched ...."

Give me a burrito and about four hours, and I will refute all of this.

9/8/2011 8:46:46 AM

Zeus Almighty

@ Doctor Whom

The invisible unicorn is polka-dotted.
Die, heretic!

9/8/2011 8:49:01 AM

JohnTheAtheist

Still, a universe that has an omnipotent creator would be a vastly different place than one with out. We should be able to use our senses to detect those differences and, in fact, we do. It's not good news for god...

Lucilius FTW!!! Well played, sir.

9/8/2011 9:20:02 AM

Berny

All of the items you list in your first paragraph, including emotions, can be measured with the right kinds of instruments.
God has never been measured in any way, shape, or form and appears to exist only between the ears of his followers.

9/8/2011 9:33:28 AM

Grigadil

god can usually be found under children's beds.

9/8/2011 9:34:49 AM



Ever walk outside on a cold day. You can definitely see the air you breath. We can observe gravity in action by picking something up and dropping it. Emotions values and beliefs are observable to when you interact with individuals you an see them manifesting. God is not observable, it can neither be seen or tested, everything you can claim is God in action can be easily explained as something natural.

9/8/2011 10:35:21 AM

Sasha

I have never seen any evidence for the Greek god Dionysus, the Aztec god Tezcatlipoca, or the Sumerian goddess Inanna either. Ergo, they must ALL exist.

Gotta run, I have a lot of gods to start worshipping.

9/8/2011 10:42:08 AM

Papabear

"The air we breathe cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched..."

Ha! Never been to LA in the summer, eh?


All is very poor thinking as air and gravity can be detected and measured. Emotions can be detected on brain scans. God? Not detected.

Just becuase we can't see something doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but the existence of unseen things is not proof of any another unseen things.


9/8/2011 10:43:32 AM

SpukiKitty

For Pantheists like myself, this argument's moot either way because everything that exists is "God". My personal belief is this, Matter, Mind & Spirit are the same thing. Spirit is to matter as Ultraviolet & Infrared is to visable light. A continuum intermingled. All is one. Logical & scientific. A bridge between Atheism & Theism.

This is the way I see things. You don't have to & I respect that. 'angelslight79' is bogus because he/she believes in a literal big guy in the sky with a long beard & a bad case of megalomania. The "Big Guy" can eat my shorts!

JAI MAA ADISHAKTI!!!

9/8/2011 10:54:09 AM

Swede

The air we breathe can be tested for content. The force of gravity can be measured. Emotions can be seen on a brain scan, they are also visible on our faces, most of them.

Can God be tested for content? Can his force be measured? Can we brain scan God?

If it's so pointless to try to reach God, then He must be just as pointless.
Congratulations on proving your belief to be virtually pointless.

9/8/2011 11:56:19 AM



This is quite a common belief, don't see why it's on here. Though I suppose being a common argument doesn't make it any more sensible...

9/8/2011 12:04:38 PM

Old Viking

Gee, we've sure never faced that argument before. Except for the gazillion times it's been refuted.

9/8/2011 12:04:55 PM

JonnyTruant

What the hell do you think you're smelling when it's fresh outside or when someone farts? That's air, or more specifically certain gasses and particulates contained within. When you fall on your ass ice skating that's gravity in action. Emotions, values, beliefs, are all imaginary constructs invented by humans to help us live inside a social setting. Your god still doesn't exist.

9/8/2011 12:15:44 PM

RevDG

another clear case of stupid.
thanks for a clear example of the theistic stupid that rots the brain.
stop fucking conflating methodological naturalism with metaphysical naturalism, even though one grew from the other, one is useful and the other is denial. oh and it doesn't have meta in it.

only a fucking moron selling something thinks that air can't be felt or heard, or even seen if you add a bit of dust to it.
christ what a fucking idiot.

9/8/2011 12:32:41 PM

rikalous

Air and gravity certainly are crappy examples, and emotions aren't much better, but this isn't fundie. It isn't "hilarious, bizarre, ignorant, bigoted, [or] terrifying". There is a difference between fundie and religious, you know.

9/8/2011 12:46:18 PM

farpadokly

You can test for oxygen. You can test for gravity. Emotions etc are subjective. Thoughts and other mental events are processes in the brain.
Apply this argument to the celestial teapot, the spaghetti monster, the dragon in the garage, and see what a silly argument it is.

9/8/2011 1:03:05 PM
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