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Quote# 83708

One of my biggest frustrations with Liberals who call themselves Christians is that when you ask them to justify their position in scripture they cannot do it effectively and have to twist the words of scripture (And add stuff in or take away) to fit their view.

Case in point, I was debating an Anglican minister who thinks abortion is ok. So I said what's your scriptural justification? He quoted a verse that he said it said if a man hits a woman and she has a miscarriage then its a civil matter (And he claims that this means the Bible is ok with abortion) . It turns out that that verse just says if two men are fighting and one accidentally hurts the woman causing her to go into labor early then there is a fine, and one verse later it says if further mischief then life for life, eye for eye. So if the baby died, that man would be killed.

So then he said, well abortion is not forbidden in the Bible, to which I replied, oh great let's go back to enslaving african americans because that isn't directly forbidden in the Bible either.

Even after being shown all the scripture under the sun as opposition to his view he still clung to it like his view is more precious than God's word.

This is extremely frustrating because having been an atheist I understood my world view had no problem with abortion, divorce, sex outside of marriage et-al, and I also understood when I became a Christian that these and much else had to change to fit the Christian path and the Scriptures.

Is there anyone else out there who experiences these frustrations? Have you got some good examples if ridiculous interpretations by liberals so they can do what they want....

tyronem , Christian Fourms 52 Comments [9/10/2011 5:40:15 AM]
Fundie Index: 68
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aaa

Translation to english: "I love cherrypicking the bible! I even make people who actually give a shit about the word of Christ groan around me!"

9/10/2011 10:43:08 AM

Canadia

"So then he said, well abortion is not forbidden in the Bible, to which I replied, oh great let's go back to enslaving african americans because that isn't directly forbidden in the Bible either. "

Oh man, my favorite line by far. Not only is the argument shitty, the Bible backs slavery.

9/10/2011 10:59:37 AM

Brain_In_A_Jar

So then he said, well abortion is not forbidden in the Bible, to which I replied, oh great let's go back to enslaving african americans because that isn't directly forbidden in the Bible either.

You do realise that this is an implicit admission of a non-biblical source of morality? Congratulations: you just lost the entire war for the sake of one battle.

9/10/2011 11:17:36 AM

Papabear

The Bible justifys slavery, genocide and eternal torture for finite transgressions. What possible justification is there for using the Bible as a guidebook of morality? "The Good Book?" HA!

9/10/2011 11:25:52 AM



@Arctic Knight

Thanks for the verse Arctic, I'm going to toss this on some fundis.

9/10/2011 11:45:56 AM

Old Viking

... so I said what's your scriptural justification?

So then he said, well abortion is not forbidden in the Bible, to which I replied, oh great ...

In other words, he's obliged to present a precise biblical quotation, and you're not.


9/10/2011 12:14:47 PM

breakerslion

"Even after being shown all the scripture under the sun as opposition to his view..."

That took about 30 seconds, right?

"This is extremely frustrating because having been an atheist ..."

So what made you go soft in the head? Are you sure you're not just a conformist social chameleon?

"Have you got some good examples if ridiculous interpretations by liberals so they can do what they want...."

No, but history is full of examples of ridiculous interpretations by ultra-conservatives so they can do what they want - to other people! Start with the Reformation, or the Puritans' persecution of the Quakers (among others) and work your way right up to GOTT MIT UNS!

9/10/2011 12:16:35 PM

Berny

The way I had always heard it is that "mischief" was defined as either the woman or the man dying, not the fetus.
Sorry, bunky, but the Bible is not a valid reference for anything, precisely because it can be interpreted in many different ways.

9/10/2011 1:23:58 PM



I knew before even finishing the first sentence that this was going to be a bitchfest against abortion. Surprisingly, nothing about teh gheys, though.

9/10/2011 1:38:45 PM

Anon-e-moose

"One of my biggest frustrations with Liberals who call themselves Christians is that when you ask them to justify their position in scripture they cannot do it effectively and have to twist the words of scripture (And add stuff in or take away) to fit their view."

Oh, I know; it's terrible isn't it?



How many of the clegy in the Church of England - the basis of modern Protestant Christianity - some of whom are Emeritus Professors of Theology (and in the decades of study, research etc, thus know far more about the subject than just about everyone in Christian circles in the US), and who readily acknowledge that much of the Bible is purely fable & metaphor; as in not to be taken literally, see it as a simple moral guide, and that the individual has the right to decide things for themself.

How frustrating it must be for you, eh, you poor dear? Acknowledging that not every Christian out there is a rabid Religious Right type like you.

(*Proceeds to rub thumb & middle finger together, playing 'Hearts & Flowers' on the world's smallest violin*)

...oh, and as for 'Liberals who call themselves Christians', the Quakers and Unitarian Universalists are gonna blow your mind with their 'Live and let live', non-judgemental & hyper-tolerant attitudes, pal.

9/10/2011 1:39:26 PM

Nowonmai

And then there are jerks like you who call themselves Christians, and keep putting your personal interpretation on a book of allegorical fables as a way to deal with life. And then prate on about 'ridiculous interpretations'.

9/10/2011 2:14:17 PM

werewolf

I have.

It's using a book of Hebrew mythology as basis for debate on modern issues. What next, LOTR as justification for white supremacy?

9/10/2011 3:10:47 PM

Berry Caluroso

I'm not sure that's <i>exactly</i> what that verse says.

9/10/2011 4:09:07 PM



@Brendan Rizzo For a moment I thought this was from an atheist. It's still not fundie because this does point out the problems with "cafeteria Christianity".

Well, this is an argument that I've heard semi-often from fellow atheists, and one that never fails to bug me.

The implication is that despite their craziness, fundamentalist Christians are somehow more honest about their religious dogma than the more moderate ones. This isn't the case. Self-declared Biblical literalists are every bit as much "picking-and-choosing" as anyone else, it's just that they are in absolute denial about the parts they neglect. It makes them more hypocritical, not more sincere than those who openly reject some sections of the Bible as allegorical or culture-dependant or only applicable in the kingdom of God or whatever.

Literalism isn't a core dogma of Christianity. Not all Christian believe in the literal inerrancy of a compilation of writings put together by a bunch of Romans. There is no rational reason for us atheists to believe that they should. There is nothing rational in putting all Christians in the same bag of sheepish, blind dogmatism, with the only distinction being how honest they are about it.

Also, while not all fundies are Christian fundamentalists, all Christian fundamentalists are fundies by definition. I thought that was obvious. I mean, there's a reason why it's called fundie.

9/10/2011 4:21:23 PM

SpukiKitty

This is why I feel that if someone's going to follow the Bible, they must either pick one Testament over the other. You can't follow both! The OT & NT contradict like crazy. Also, everyone cherry-picks....however Moderate/Liberal cherrypickers cherrypick the parts of the Bible that are good & truly "Godly" while Fundies only like the DEATH VERSES OF DOOM!

9/10/2011 5:38:49 PM



That's funny, because one of my biggest frustrations with conservatives who call themselves Christian is that they can't justify THEIR positions in scripture.

Despite the fact that it directly contradicts the teachings of Jesus, they vote to end welfare, Food Stamps, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. They vigorously support the death penalty, and they think they shouldn't have to pay their taxes, unless of course, those taxes go to fund war, in which case they're all for Republicans spending their tax money like drunken sailors. They also make up Biblical prohibitions against abortion which do not exist (i.e., "ridiculous interpretations").

9/10/2011 7:52:34 PM

Raised by Horses

If you're an ex-Atheist, I'm an ex-Martian.

9/10/2011 10:15:33 PM

Justanotheratheist

If god intended us to follow scripture he should have given as a book that actually makes sense, and not this mish-mash of inaccuracies and contradictions which doesn't amount to much more than a gigantic heap of rotting word salad.

9/10/2011 11:42:56 PM

Extraintrovert

"People who cherry pick the bible make me so angry. I keep using my own cherry picked statements but they won't listen to me!"

Also, I don't think I will ever tire of ignorant Christians who forget that Jesus was liberal as fuck, even compared to most of today's nations.

9/11/2011 12:55:23 AM



Basically, the same will say the said liberal Christians about YOU.

9/11/2011 7:34:38 AM

RapturedbyBlondie

I agree, but I still prefer an incoherent liberal to a coherent cultist.

9/11/2011 7:39:58 AM

checkmate

twist the words of scripture (And add stuff in or take away) to fit their view

Let me speak with you for five minutes, and I'll bet I can find a large number of topics for which you have to wrap scripture into a boatswain's knot to get anywhere near your opinion.

Let's start out with voting for Michelle Bachmann and go on from there ...

9/11/2011 12:39:14 PM

tmarcl

You do realize that by implying that slavery is wrong despite not being forbidden in the bible, you are in fact arguing against the bible being used as a basis for civil law - essentially refuting your own argument.


9/12/2011 4:45:06 AM

Mister Spak

"So then he said, well abortion is not forbidden in the Bible, to which I replied, oh great let's go back to enslaving african americans because that isn't directly forbidden in the Bible either. "

So now you have a problem. Abortion is not prohibited by the bible, but slavery is encouraged, while you have to take the opposite opinion. Now do you understand why normal people point and laugh at you?

9/12/2011 4:59:15 AM

solomongrundy

...to which I replied, oh great let's go back to enslaving african americans because that isn't directly forbidden in the Bible either.

'...isn't directly forbidden'? That's true, it's directly approved.

Ephesians 6:5 Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ;

Colossonians 3:22 Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.



9/12/2011 11:16:42 PM
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