A Little More on Bullying
I mentioned in a recent post that, like Bonald at Throne and Altar, I actually support bullying under certain circumstances. Let me flesh that out a little more.
Actually, let me just state my rule for bullying: if it's used as a means of enforcing normative behaviors, I'm all for it. And yeah, that means giving shit to fairies and tomboys and so on.
Normative behaviors exist for a reason. Like tradition, social norms tell us provide us a measure of what is good and just, especially for those who are too stupid to figure it out on their own. Social disapproval of immoral behaviors (like homosexuality, adultery, etc.) is often a more powerful disincentive to commit them than legal consequences; there are limits to others' ability to probe into your legal indiscretions, but the stench of a social brand in some degenerate's ass can linger in a community's collective hindbrain for generations. And so it was that, for a long time, it was wholly unnecessary for governments to police morality: communities did it their own damn selves.
Of course, one can say, "Well, who are you to force the norm of traditional family on, say, some good-hearted, hard-working single mother?" But one would be an idiot for saying that, given the abundance of studies (at least one by no less-respected a medical journal than The Lancet, a casual Googling revealed) demonstrating that childen raised in single-family are worse off in pretty much every way: they exhibit higher rates of mental illness, suicide attempts, injury, alcoholism, drug addiction, and all-cause mortality, even after adjusting for socioeconomic status and parents' health. Traditional societies knew and understood that children did best who were raised in a norm-conforming household; it is only in our (supposedly) enlightened modern society that we make virtuous angels out of the sluts and cads who ruin their kids' lives so that they can find themselves (or whatever). That's why traditional societies ostracized such people while modern societies make movies about them while ignoring all the evil they bring into the world. Likewise with the destruction of traditional gender roles (in the form of flamboyant homosexuals, cross-dressers, and transgender freakazoids).
So to the extent that people bullied today are serial violators of perfectly rational social norms, they ought to be subject to social disapproval -- even quite severely so. Those who imagine there is a "right" to attend a school without being bullied are deluded: one never has a right to behave however one wishes without consequences. Accepting this fact is a key step toward maturity. I'm torn on the extent to which this ought to entail physical bullying (certainly, I think it's justified when one is being an asshole about defying social norms, as in the case of the transgender abomination that got his/her ass unceremoniously pummeled into a seizure at a Baltimore-area McDonald's recently for belligerently insisting on using an occupied women's restroom), but I see nothing wrong with quite persistent verbal ribbing.
But to the extent bullying represents mindless, irrational cruelty (for instance, assaulting those whose only crime is being skinny, awkward, smart, or whatever), it ought to be brought under control. Unlike defiance of social norms, being skinny or fat or awkward or smart really doesn't hurt anyone -- and there's no sense in punishing them for it. It's intrinsic to the nature of demographics, after all, that not everyone can be ripped, engaging, and of modest intellect). Of course, that's no reason to have to associate with them (and awkward people really shouldn't have any friends until they learn to go out and make some on their own), but again, it's no reason to subject them to punishment, either. An Unmarried Man has a good post on the topic related to fat (and pregnant) women; it's worth a read.
One may object to my characterization of bullying in defense of social norms as not only valid and reasonable but right and good as fighting fire with fire. It is, of course -- but sometimes that's perfectly advisable, as when one stops the spread of a firestorm by burning away the flammable brush in a certain circumfrence around it. It's worth bearing in mind that the same liberals who decry bullying are perfectly content to bully in defense of their own social norms, at the expense of Christians and non-sexual deviants and so on; FIRE is dedicated to fighting these types of bullying in universities, where it has the potential to devastate a person's future to an extent routine beating-up-fags stuff doesn't . If there is, in fact, something like a war going on to determine whose social values ought to be ascendant, I see no reason why one side should be expected to unilaterally disarm.
Even for the sake of the children.
Proph, Collapse: The Blog 178 Comments
[9/15/2011 3:56:30 AM]
Fundie Index: 283
Submitted By: Zosimus the Heathen
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There's a choice of two interpretations:
"I'm incapable of proving my own value to myself so I'm convincing myself that putting down others puts me above them and my mental survival demands that they are bullied by more than myself because my position is so weak that it demands exterior approval."
"My penis gets hard when I act sadistic to nonconsenting targets and I don't want to think that there's a problem with me."
Given the length of the rant, I'd say the former, but they're both possible.
9/15/2011 4:10:23 AM
Another prick who thinks that not being allowed to bully others is being persecuted themselves.
9/15/2011 4:18:08 AM
"they exhibit higher rates of mental illness, suicide attempts, injury, alcoholism, drug addiction"
Conclusion? We need to bully them! Because the extensive bullying of people that are not living up to your norms surely can't be why they feel bad and turn to drugs and suicide in the first place? No, of course not, must be too little bullying...
9/15/2011 4:22:48 AM
Ken's Cell Hates Homophobes
If it's nobody's right to go to school without being bullied, there's not much you can do for the fat, skinny, smart, weird, etc. kids.
And if my dad had died from one of his many health conditions, that would make my mom a slut? Really?
9/15/2011 4:24:29 AM
Single parents are an abomination, so bully their children for their own sake. Makes perfect sense, after I repeatedly strike my head with a hammer.
The rest is the usual "OUR way is right, YOUR way is wrong, so WE are justified in doing what I'm telling YOU not to do."
9/15/2011 4:28:44 AM
You heard it kids, just bully the poor kid with the big glasses until his eyesight improves! Keep on beating up the ginger, his hair colour will eventually change to a nice, normal and decent blonde. Throwing insults at the slightly overweight kid will surely stop his metabolic disorder which causes him to gain weight even when barely eating to stay alive. Enforce normality (by which I mean what you, in your own, narrow view, think is normal, because the fun part is that you are now violently forcing your views on others. It's for their own good!)
9/15/2011 4:30:10 AM
You sir are a douchebag, it is never right to bully anyone for any reason. Your fantasy is a world of noisy people constantly looking into each others lives and mocking them for anything you don't like.
How about I bully you some for being a bully, how about I get a bunch of friends and we pick on you non stop. Bet you wouldn't like it would you...then don't do it to others. HOW HARD IS THAT TO UNDERSTAND.
9/15/2011 4:33:49 AM
You know what's scary? He's thought about this, I mean really thought. He seems to understand basic research, he writes fairly coherently, and he comes out with unbelievable douchiness like this.
9/15/2011 4:39:31 AM
I am not often left speechless by a post on here, very little surprises me anymore. However, the utter hate and the promotion of violence against anyone who is different than the author is beyond what I usually see. I really have nothing to add concerning this ass hole's rant.
9/15/2011 4:43:29 AM
Zosimus the Heathen
You are a dickwad. In the interests of enforcing society's rules against people being dickwads, when should I get da boyz to come around to your house and subject you to a nice bit of educational, character-building violence, abuse and general intimidation?
9/15/2011 4:46:28 AM
As I read this, I could literally feel my fury building with each sentence that passed. The idiocy, the hypocrisy, the insanity and utter steaming EVIL that leaks from every word of this abomination's rant is almost more than I can withstand, only capable of finishing due to being desensitised from regular visits to this site. This is the type of scum every religion, every nation, every time and place in the history of humanity has, who lack even the faintest glimmer of empathy for anyone that isn't exactly like them in any way, demanding that others be treated like garbage while they enjoy the privileges they claim others don't deserve.
Fuck off, Proph. Fuck off and die, and if there was a hell, you would be sent directly to it.
9/15/2011 4:50:12 AM
Raised by Horses
Too long, did not fucking read. If you want to engage in demagogy, you can at least bloody well try to be concise. Don't try to hide the dearth of content in your articles behind an avalanche of unnecessary words.
EDIT: Okay, I actually went back and took the time to read through all that drivel. Now, speaking of fire, kindly go and die in one.
9/15/2011 4:51:03 AM
My father was raised by a single mother. He didn't have shit. Grew up poor, and worked his way to accomplish much, without the support of an affluent family.
He made it to 68 without killing himself, no history of mental illness, or drug addiction.
Everyone gets hurt, so I'm not entirely sure what clout that adds to your argument.
He did pretty well for himself too. He has a nice house, 2 Ferrari's, a Caddy, and a Stealth twin turbo. Comfortably retired.
Keep in mind, I don't mention these things as in a "better-than-you" context, but rather I found it curious, and amusing, that all of the things you claim single parent children "suffer" from, seem to be in antihesis of my pop.
What's more...I come from an affluent family... Loving parents, who taught me about accepting people, tollerance, and modesty. I've had drug problems. I've had issues with depression...and although I do love sex, I don't look at it as an "immoral" act. Nor do I feel that way about having a beer, or skipping church on Sundays to watch football... not that I go to church in the first place.
We are what we make ourselves to be. It's douchebags like you who make people ashamed to be themselves, while you take that luxury for granted.
For these reasons alone, I can dismiss the rest of this rubbish with predjudice.
However, I think bullying of douchebags like you would be far more progressive, than hating on someone cause they either like, or don't like, the cock.
*sorry for the long rant FSTDT'ers, this just struck a nerve*
9/15/2011 4:58:22 AM
Wow... triple post. I'll just shut up now.
9/15/2011 5:00:36 AM
sorry double post
9/15/2011 5:02:57 AM
Awesome! That means I can have six of my gay friends beat the ever-lovin' shit out of YOU for being an ignorant, violent, abusive, bigoted, shit-for-brains.
Sounds fair to me.
What was your address again?
9/15/2011 5:08:33 AM
These sort of sadistic goons made my brief high school experience a total nightmare of constand violence and pain.
I was beaten up every day for being small, weak, and naive. My own social ignorance was punished relentlessly by the same self styled guardians of "social norms".
I suspect that most of the "fags" "fairys", and "degenerates" this shit ball wants to pummell for sport, are just scared kids who know his dirty secret.
(ie: closet homosexual, jock, beating up the witnesses)
9/15/2011 5:09:51 AM
What a vile asshole. He's for bullying tomboys? Really? Tomboys? I guess for this douchebag, it's a good thing to make girls who aren't ultra feminine feel like shit.
As a woman who loves fishing and video games, I was picked on terribly in school, both by boys and other girls. I do not own any make up, skirts or dresses, and go fishing at least twice a week.
Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.
9/15/2011 5:14:44 AM
Ditto to Arctic Knight and Extraintrovert.
I'm not letting myself process this 100% because if I do I'm going to go on the biggest rant of my life. As a person who was bullied in elementary school, at great detriment to my mental health, and who therefore knows how psychologically damaging it can be, I would have a lot of vitriolic things to say to this person — or to anyone who would presume to justify bullying under any circumstances. Well, except for this guy. I'd make an exception for this guy. He wants bullying? I can give him fucking bullying. Fuck! I have to wrap this up, now, before my rage gets to me and I actually start that rant. Goodbye.
9/15/2011 5:25:55 AM
"Likewise with the destruction of traditional gender roles (in the form of flamboyant homosexuals, cross-dressers, and transgender freakazoids"
9/15/2011 5:35:02 AM
Every time I think I've seen it all, fuckers like this come around.
9/15/2011 5:36:29 AM
"I'm being persecuted by not being allowed to persecute people!"
Yeah..its the Christian way.
I know quite a few Christians who would sternly reject your proposals, and even call you a "fake Christian". Well, if thats true, you will be burning in hell with the rest of us non-christians, gays, and atheist...oh, and pagans, devil worshippers, and muslims.
What will you do then when you are lumped together with everything you hate so much for all eternity?
9/15/2011 5:36:53 AM
From my memories of school, violations of social norms that got me bullied included not wearing a short enough skirt, studying too hard and having an insufficient knowledge of rude words.
9/15/2011 5:41:10 AM
putting aside the total bull shit (otherwise my blood pressure will be even higher!) his concept of "normality" is profoundly parochial.
What is "normal" in 1950s USA is much different from that of 1940s Europe, say - the latter had more single mothers due to the war.
And Western 20C life is different from that of China et al.
So his emotional rant enabling bullying is based on a world view smaller than that of the average goldfish.
Also, I'd like to pummel him for excusing physical violence (from the safety of his mom's basement)
9/15/2011 5:43:38 AM
So, if a group of people approached you and beat your ass down because of your being a self-righteous douchebag, you will have no objection to it because you will accept the fact that your aberrant douchebag behavior was what warranted your betting beat up in the first place?
Oh, and you're a douchebag. I can't stress that enough.
9/15/2011 5:44:23 AM
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