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Quote# 83905

The world stands at the brink – the Progressive/Muslim Axis vs. Natural Law/Christianity. Indeed, developments in Egypt, Tunisia and Jordan may indeed be that fateful domino that causes civilizations to collide into global catastrophe. Muslims want to invite apocalypse to set the stage for the so-called Twelfth Imam. Since the 1880s, progressives have provoked societal chaos through a litany of diabolical ideas and welfare policies designed to plunge America and the West into utopian socialism as a pretext to destroy Christianity, Natural Law and the Constitution while forcing society into a globalist Marxist state.

Heads the Progressive-Muslim Axis wins – tails Western civilization, Christianity and Israel lose.

Ellis Washington, World Net Daily 87 Comments [9/20/2011 3:39:22 AM]
Fundie Index: 86
Submitted By: Night Jaguar
WTF?! || meh
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"Muslims want to invite apocalypse to set the stage for the so-called Twelfth Imam."

You mean like how you want to invite apocalypse to set the stage for the so-called rapture? Pot, Kettle, Black anyone?

9/20/2011 2:53:46 PM



If I recall correctly, the "Twelfth Imam" is a Shi'a concept. Egypt, Tunisia, Jordan and most of the rest of the Muslim countries in the world are mostly Sunni. The Twelfth Imam is no more relevant to Sunnis than the rapture is to Catholics.

9/20/2011 4:05:35 PM

Alencon

Do you suppose this moron knows what "utopian" means?

9/20/2011 4:26:39 PM

Giveitaday

The world stands at the brink

The world stands at the brink of many things, this ain't one of them.

the Progressive/Muslim Axis vs. Natural Law/Christianity

So this is your solution? You can't scare people with reality so you just make shit up?

9/20/2011 4:29:20 PM

Agahnim

@Giveitaday

Making shit up is all Whirled Nut Daily does.

9/20/2011 4:52:14 PM

farpadokly

Moar emotionally potent over-simplifications from Ellis. Lump all the things you don't like together, and try to somehow make them the same thing.

9/20/2011 5:34:12 PM

gaijinlaw

CTSTDT, surely.

9/20/2011 6:07:56 PM

The Jamo

PA SYSTEM: Ellis Washington, this is your 5-minute stage call. Please proceed to stage entrance C.

9/20/2011 6:18:09 PM

TheJebusFire

That's a whole lotta crazy right there.

9/20/2011 7:26:38 PM

ThinkingManNeil

(Shakes head) Ellis, Ellis, Ellis. The meds can't help you if you don't take them every day!

9/20/2011 7:29:46 PM

Street Sharks

Just shut the fuck up, Ellis. You have no idea what you are talking about, you clown.

Just fucking retarded.

9/20/2011 8:44:12 PM

Reckoner

Has Ellis Washington been right about anything ever?

9/20/2011 9:10:27 PM



Islam is closer to Christianity rather than "progessive ideas". Try to learn about Islam for once in your life.

9/21/2011 2:02:50 AM

Argle Bargle

People overthrowing oppressive regimes are contributing to the downfall of civilization? Let's see you living your whole life under Gaddhafis boot!

Meh, who am I kidding. You sound like a natural bootlicker.

9/21/2011 2:24:49 AM

Brendan Rizzo

@ Raised by Horses:

No one is denying that the Koran promotes some horrible things. No one is denying that the Bible also promotes most of those same horrible things. And no one is denying that the two of them are equally horrific in their promotion of those horrible things. That's why fundies are so abominable, after all. However, even though the Bible praises countless atrocities and those who commit them, there are progressive Christians regardless of this. You can claim that they aren't true Christians, but they certainly seem to be living like Jesus. Since the Bible and Koran are pretty much moral equivalents of each other, there is no reason why there cannot be Muslims who also disregard the parts of their holy book that they find distasteful, and become progressive Muslims. In fact, I think quite a few of those exist in America and other countries which allow freedom of religion.

To reiterate, no one is saying that Christianity is morally superior to Islam; however, it is quite unfair to Muslims to imply that all of them are fundamentalists when no religion is made up entirely of fundamentalist fanatics. And I say this as someone who is not, has never been, and never will be a Muslim.

9/21/2011 6:23:25 AM

Raised by Horses

@Brendan Rizzo

Yes, I realize that not every Muslim is a foaming-at-the-mouth Jihad-o-holic. I'm not in the habit of painting people with a broad brush like that. What I'm saying is that people, whether they profess faith or not, are usually good, moral and rational despite said faith, and not because of it. And the quality of being progressive is very much antithetical to virtually any religion. (Mind you, if all those who professed to be Muslims or Christians or whatever actually took their holy books 100% seriously, including those lovely passages about killing all non-believers, infidels and outsiders, we'd have a very different society on our hands).

If you actually tried to live your life according to every rule and tenet set down in the Bible or the Koran, including making attempts to reconcile their numerous contradictions with known facts about the real world, and even with their own contents, the sheer cognitive dissonance would cause your head to spin until it fell off. Hence, believers pick and choose the bits they like and ignore the ones they don't. It's pretty hard to claim that anyone is or isn't a "True Christian" or a "True Muslim", when there isn't even a proper definition of what either of those things are.

Cheers, mate.

9/21/2011 8:10:51 AM

Amadan

One of the funny things about Natural Law is that it says that morality is not a monopoly of Believers. Unbelievers can be moral because (according to Natural Law) morality can be derived by the use of reason.

Which kind of puts a wrench in the Fundie Favourite "If it wasn't for Jeeeeeeebus we'd all be barbecuing babies and mugging old ladies".

Thomas Aquinas says you fail, Ellis.

9/21/2011 8:38:38 AM

Amadan

Another funny things about Natural Law.

There is a well developed philosophy of Natural Law in Islam, courtesy of Averroes. Like Aquinas, he derived his thinking on it from Aristotle.

Double Fail, Ellis.

9/21/2011 8:41:25 AM

Brendan Rizzo

@ Raised by Horses:

That's exactly what I was trying to say, actually...

9/21/2011 11:29:57 AM

John

The world stands at the brink – the Progressive/Muslim Axis vs. Natural Law/ lunatic-fringe fundamentalist Christianity. Indeed, developments in Egypt, Tunisia and Jordan Texas may indeed be that fateful domino that causes civilizations to collide into global catastrophe. Muslims Lunatic-fringe fundamentalist Christians want to invite apocalypse to set the stage for the so-called Twelfth Imam "Rapture". Since the 188030s, progressives lunatic-fringe fundamentalist Christians have provoked societal chaos through a litany of diabolical ideas and welfare policies designed to plunge America and the West into utopian socialism fundamentalist Protestant theocracy as a pretext to destroy mainstream moderate Christianity, Natural Law and the Constitution while forcing society into a globalist Marxist lunatic-fringe fundamentalist Christian state.

Same shit, different fantasy.

9/21/2011 11:42:42 AM



@ Raised by Horses

"the quality of being progressive is very much antithetical to virtually any religion" - as a progressive Christian I'd dispute this. All mainstream faiths have their conservative and progressive wings; certain Christian groups (Unitarians and Quakers being the obvious example) are progressive by definition. I suppose your "virtually" gives you some wiggle room, but it's still a generalisation too sweeping for me. Same goes for your "people, whether they profess faith or not, are usually good, moral and rational despite said faith, and not because of it." It's too sloppy a statement to be worth much. But I agree with your implication that what matters are the values we live by rather than the beliefs, religious, political, whatever, that we profess to hold. On many causes believers and non-believers can join forces, and often do.

What interests me about the idea of progressive Moslems is whether they can be so without performing such mental gymnastics that one wonders about their integrity. For example I know a Moslem psychologist whose training in Western medicine leads him to dismiss jinns as a diagnosis when dealing with mental distress; but as a man of faith he can't deny their existence, and I've been fascinated to watch him try to keep his two world views in balance.

Liberal Christians working in mental health (as I do) don't have the same problem: they know that Biblical material about demons needs to be demythologised, seen as metaphor at best, dismissed as primitive at worst. We don't even have to pay lip service to the idea of an infallible Bible because we don't believe that unhistorical doctrine in the first place. A Moslem, as I understand it, MUST accept the absolute authority of the Koran and for an educated Westerner that's a problem.

9/21/2011 12:20:34 PM

Mister Spak

@#1334560:

" I know a Moslem psychologist whose training in Western medicine leads him to dismiss jinns as a diagnosis when dealing with mental distress; but as a man of faith he can't deny their existence, and I've been fascinated to watch him try to keep his two world views in balance. "

Google "right wing authoritarian followers" and see what is said about compartmentalised thinking.

Christian fundies have a horrible problem with it, in the logical sense. In the psycological sense they are completely unaware of the problem, which is a characteristic of American fundies.

I used to work with a creationist who was also a degreed engineer. It was so much fun to make his engineering brain collide with his fundie creationist brain. Eventually he just refused to talk to me.

9/21/2011 1:33:23 PM

Raised by Horses

@1334560

NT, Romans 12:19-20
"Never avenge yourselves, but leave room for the Wrath of God. For it is written, 'Vengeance is mine. I will repay,' says the Lord. Rather, if your enemies are hungry, feed them. If they are thirsty, give them something to drink, for by doing this you will be heaping burning coals on their heads."

NT, Timothy 6:1, Ephesians 6:5
"All those who are under the yoke of slavery must have utmost regard for their master. Obey your earthly masters with respect, fear, and sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."

OT, Samuel 3:12, 13, 14
"In that day I will perform against Eli all things which I have spoken concerning his house: when I begin, I will also make an end. For I have told him that I will judge his house for ever for the iniquity which he knoweth; because his sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not. And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever."

NT, Timothy 2:11-12
"A woman should learn in silence and full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must keep silent."

NT, Thessalonians 2:14-15
"The Jews killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets. They are displeasing to God and hostile to all men."

OT, Leviticus 20:13
"If a man has sex with a man in same way as with a woman, they have committed an abomination. They are certainly to be put to death. Their blood is on their own heads."

OT, Deuteronomy 22:20
"...if the accusation is true and no evidence of the woman's virginity is shown, the woman must be taken to the door of her fathers house and stoned to death by the men of the town."

OT, Deuteronomy 23:1
"A man whose testicles have been crushed or whose penis has been cut off must not be admitted to the congregation of Yahweh."

9/21/2011 4:15:09 PM

Raised by Horses

(cont'd)

OT, Exodus 20:12, 21:15,17..
"Honour your father and your mother. Anyone who strikes father or mother will be put to death. Anyone who curses father or mother will be put to death."

OT, Exodus 21:20-21
"If someone beats his slave and the slave dies at his hands he shall certainly be avenged. But should the slave survive for one day or two he will pay no penalty because the slave is his owner's property."

OT, Deuteronomy 13:6-8,9,10
"If your brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife tries to secretly entice you, telling you to go and worship other gods, gods of people living near you, or far from you, or anywhere on earth, do not listen to him. You must kill them. Show them no pity. And your hand must strike the first blow. Then the hands of all the people. You shall stone them to death."

NT, Matthew 10:34, Luke 12:49
"Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace but a sword. I have come to bring fire to the earth. And how I wish it were burning already!"

Progressive, indeed!

Tell me, do you still keep to these laws and edicts, or has Christianity, in your estimation, "progressed" beyond them? What need, then, of Christianity and its tenets as laid down by its holy texts in the lives of "progressive Christians"?

9/21/2011 4:16:14 PM

Raised by Horses

(cont'd again)

Yes, there are good parts, too, in the Bible, but they are greatly outnumbered by ones espousing cruelty and injustice. And were we to allow that those passages are somehow even or possibly greater in value... well, these texts leave us no method by which to make such discernments. It should be obvious to anyone that a work which espouses cruelty and kindness in equal measure ultimately gives weight to neither, and thus cannot be taken seriously as a moral guide in any way. Indeed, having read through parts of the Bible again recently, I am struck by the sheer moral poverty of these ancient texts.

These are not passages that are "subject to interpretation" or "moving in mysterious ways" (and please don't start trotting out any nonsense about how it's all "metaphorical" or, heaven forbid, "God is Love"), they are concrete decrees, to be upheld by all true believers on pain of death (and eternal torment).

Really, as a "progressive Christian", you should have another look through your "good" book and evaluate it for yourself. I suspect that as someone who desires moral and social progress, as you claim, you may find it wanting.

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
-Steven Weinberg

9/21/2011 4:17:16 PM
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