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Quote# 84017

(On Paul Vitz's book Faith of the Fatherless, which claims that atheism is caused by having a bad relationship with one's father in childhood.)

Atheism IS a zero on the spiritual health scale because atheism denies the existence of spirits, and therefore must also conclude that there is no such thing as "spiritual health" at all. So spiritual health, according to atheism, is equal to zero because it is totally non-existent.

Anyone who has taken the time to READ Vitz's actual book knows that he does not make "ridiculous over-generalizations." He specifically points out and addresses the fact that there are exceptions to his theory.

But as long as we're presenting anecdotal evidence, let me have a go: My Dad spent EVERY day with me growing up, as did my Mom. If your dad only spent a measly 3 days a week with you growing up, your childhood was an appalling travesty.

Try reading Vitz's actual book all the way through BEFORE you judge it. How does that sound?

Brainwave, Beliefnet 77 Comments [9/28/2011 3:14:50 AM]
Fundie Index: 54
Submitted By: Wykked Wytch
WTF?! || meh
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Table Rock

So spiritual health, according to atheism, is equal to zero because it is totally non-existent.

Some Buddhists would like to talk to you.

9/28/2011 6:43:49 AM

Brendan Rizzo

Well, it's good that he acknowledges that there are exceptions, however when there are so many exceptions that it is difficult to find examples that actually fit, then your hypothesis is clearly wrong.

For the record, I may not be an atheist, but since you fundies have no sense of nuance you would consider me an atheist anyway if you knew what I believed, so let's assume that I am relevant for these data. I have a very good relationship with my father, who is a Christian. In fact, we occasionally discuss politics and religion, and I usually (but not always) agree with him. Guess that puts me down as another exception, eh?

You also have no position to judge how much of a travesty a person's childhood was by how much time a person's father spent with them. Three days a week is still almost half the week. That's pretty good, in my opinion.

9/28/2011 6:56:48 AM

Moondog

I had a great relationship with my dad when I was growing up. He was a leader in my Scout troop. I was in a store the other day and heard a father reviewing math with his son, "What's 7+8?" "Uh, 15." Flashback to many an evening, c. 1975, with flashcards at the kitchen table or before bed. I often visit them both in Worcester, and I'm an atheist. Looks like Vitz's hypothesis is null.

9/28/2011 7:08:30 AM

aaa

This is still one of the dumbest arguments i have ever heard.

9/28/2011 7:18:25 AM

Dr. Razark

My father is an atheist. Your move, fundie.


@Zosimus the Heathen

"I thought a bad relationship with one's father in childhood was only supposed to cause homosexuality."

Obvious answer, posted many times here. Atheism == homosexuality.

9/28/2011 7:27:58 AM

Agahnim

This argument's a dead horse that has been beaten too many times. Not to mention that there are atheists who were raised atheist by atheist parents, and considering how stable atheist and non-fundie theist marriages are compared to fundie ones, I'd say this argument definitely doesn't apply to them.

9/28/2011 7:59:11 AM

TGRwulf

My parents were VERY VERY VERY involved in my life as a kid. I was raised in a fairly religous household (with a bible on every bookshelf). My parents played with us, brought us to places, brought us on more vacations than I can count, etc. Yet, here I am still an atheist.

9/28/2011 8:05:13 AM

Mrs. Antichrist

Yes, clearly YOU, random stranger who has never met me and knows nothing about me, are in a position to tell me why I'm an atheist. Uh huh. Sure.

9/28/2011 8:50:26 AM

Papabear

"Atheism IS a zero on the spiritual health scale because atheism denies the existence of spirits, and therefore must also conclude that there is no such thing as "spiritual health" at all. So spiritual health, according to atheism, is equal to zero because it is totally non-existent."

A person's SPIRIT, as in his/her attitude, outlook, feelings, etc.) certainly exists, but, I as an atheist, understand that SPIRITS, as in deities, ghosts, etc.) do not exist, therefore, SPIRITUALITY is a fiction.

"Anyone who has taken the time to READ Vitz's actual book knows that he does not make "ridiculous over-generalizations."

That statement in itself is a ridiculous generalization.

"He specifically points out and addresses the fact that there are exceptions to his theory."

It does not make me feel any better about his or your statements to be told I may be an exception to a bad theory.

"But as long as we're presenting anecdotal evidence, let me have a go: My Dad spent EVERY day with me growing up, as did my Mom. If your dad only spent a measly 3 days a week with you growing up, your childhood was an appalling travesty."

I worked with my father in our family business starting at the age of 4 (yes, that's right, 4.) In high school and after I worked closely with him essentially every day, and yet, I ended up a staunch atheist. Curious, eh?

"Try reading Vitz's actual book all the way through BEFORE you judge it. How does that sound?"

It really doesn't sound like a very good use of my time. So many really good things to read, you know.

9/28/2011 9:02:40 AM

Itachirumon

My father's spent a grand total of two weeks worth of time with me - 9 of those days were in August.

My childhood turned out fine, go fuck yourself.

9/28/2011 9:05:06 AM

TheJebusFire

If Christians had such a great relationship with their father, then why do they need heavenly ones?

9/28/2011 9:15:33 AM

Joe Mama

I had a great relationship with my Christian father and I still became an atheist. How do you explain that?

He specifically points out and addresses the fact that there are exceptions to his theory.

Ahh, how convenient. The problem is that there are so many exceptions to his "theory" as to make it completely worthless.

9/28/2011 9:27:40 AM

Frank

"My Dad spent EVERY day with me growing up"

Unemployed was he?


9/28/2011 9:30:20 AM

Leliel

Huh.

Normally Beliefnet is the refuge of sane religion.

Whelp, utopia means "no place", after all.

9/28/2011 9:48:10 AM

Number 6

My parents never told me what to believe when I was growing up. When I told them I was an atheist, turned out they stopped believing in God shortly after I was born.

I'm guessing your father taught you to be scared- of God, of the Devil, of him. My dad didn't spend every day with me. But he got me interested in science and engineering. He showed me that the universe can be analyzed and understood. We don't have to live in fear of your "spirits". We can create our own destiny.

Thanks Dad.

9/28/2011 9:50:31 AM

Berny

I think "ridiculous over-generalizations" pretty much sums it up for me. I had, and continue to have, an excellent relationship with my father, who was a devout Christian most of his life. I'm an atheist and have been for decades. My father only recently has begun to question things he believed uncritically for years.
As for "spiritual health" and the existence of spirits, I will take the default position of skepticism and wait for you to produce evidence for your claims of the existence of spirits.
Good luck.

9/28/2011 9:58:26 AM

solomongrundy

Vitz's '...specifically points out and addresses the fact that there are exceptions to his theory.'

Vitz's idea is not a theory as there's not the least evidence to support it. It's not even a hypothesis, in fact it's what scientists' call a 'brain-fart'.

9/28/2011 9:59:46 AM

DinosaurRidinJeebus

I'm an atheist. My dad is also pretty cool.

This asshole is fucking stupid.

And "spiritual health?" You mean some statistic you guys made up to make it seem like believing in imaginary friends actually has positive benefits? Fuck you. Religion is the cause of so many problems you can blow your "spiritual health" right out your ass.

9/28/2011 10:14:08 AM



"He specifically points out and addresses the fact that there are exceptions to his theory."

Then, just like fundies love declaring sooooooooo much... IT'S NOT A THEORY!!

9/28/2011 10:16:17 AM

Peregrin the Cordial

There are better quotable material in the paper. But to be honest, it *is* full of fail.

9/28/2011 10:30:53 AM



Fuck you. My parents were divorced.

9/28/2011 10:36:47 AM

breakerslion

"Atheism IS a zero on the spiritual health scale because atheism denies the existence of spirits, and therefore must also conclude that there is no such thing as "spiritual health" at all. So spiritual health, according to atheism, is equal to zero because it is totally non-existent. "

Oh please, wise one, tell me what else atheists think ... because you're so qualified to have an opinion!

Those among us who doubt that there is a ghost in this meat machine would refer to "spiritual health" as, "mental health," thereby refusing to endow it with magical attributes. Please furnish proof that we are not talking about the same thing.

"Anyone who has taken the time to READ Vitz's actual book knows that he does not make "ridiculous over-generalizations." He specifically points out and addresses the fact that there are exceptions to his theory."

Yes, and when the exceptions are great enough in number, real science rejects the theory of trend or causal relationship. Since Vitz obviously set out to find evidence to support a pet theory hypothesis, he is doing junk science.

From where I sit taking time to READ that kind of CRAP is a waste of my precious life.

9/28/2011 10:43:01 AM

Headache

Spiritual health is pure bullshit!

9/28/2011 11:09:32 AM

Osiris

Well at least you admit that all you have is anecdotal evidence, or as I call it, meaningless bullshit that's probably made up.

9/28/2011 11:21:58 AM

BlackMageJ

Christianity IS a zero on the Noodle Index because Christianity denies the existence of the Flying Spaghetti monster, and therefore must conclude that there is no such thing as a 'Noodle Index' at all.

Since a low Noodle Index is indicative of extreme silliness, we can only conclude that Christianity is a symptom of... *checks cross-reference tables* sausages hallucinating that they're people.

9/28/2011 11:30:54 AM
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