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Quote# 84087

According to the atheistic approach above, as far as I am concerned, he cannot say for sure that he knows that God does not exist, or he will be taken as a fool. So, he has no choice but to believe that God exists. If he knew for sure that God existed, he would not have to say that he believes in God. It stands the reason then, that atheists cannot be sure about anything or they will be taken by fools. In that case, he must believe that God exists, since he is not sure He does.

Ben Masada, CARM 74 Comments [10/2/2011 4:52:13 AM]
Fundie Index: 124
WTF?! || meh
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Brianisha

If there is a god, he or she doesnt show itself to the world, with the exception of lunatics like yourself. God must love stupid people, he made so many comes to mind.

10/2/2011 10:34:39 AM

Brianisha

If there is a god, he or she doesnt show itself to the world, with the exception of lunatics like yourself. God must love stupid people, he made so many comes to mind.

10/2/2011 10:35:30 AM

DaMidnighter

I am incredibly confused and nothing makes sense

10/2/2011 10:57:22 AM

Brendan Rizzo

No. If he is not sure that God exists, then he is not sure that God exists. It does not mean that he must believe that God exists.

10/2/2011 11:04:38 AM

Panz

Ways to tell God exists;
Bible

Ways to tell God doesn't exist;
Bible
No evidence

Thus God does not exist

10/2/2011 11:04:51 AM

CleverScreenName

...what?

10/2/2011 11:12:03 AM

J. James

Seeing a Fundy try to handle logic is like watching baby seals trying to juggle revving chainsaws. Hilarity, followed by sadness.

10/2/2011 12:39:08 PM

checkmate

atheists cannot be sure about anything or they will be taken by fools.

Check.

In that case, he must believe that God exists

Err, no.

However, from about the middle of October until the middle of April, when I leave my office in the evening, the stairwell is pitch black dark. When I turn off the lights and open my office door, I can't see anything, especially not the stairwell. So, is it still there? I can't say for sure. Up until now it's been there every time I step out of my ofiice door. But who knows? Someday ... ;-)

10/2/2011 1:42:09 PM

TheJebusFire


10/2/2011 2:06:18 PM

Smartypants

Umm, sorry, but logic doesn't quite work like that!

10/2/2011 2:42:00 PM

casewithscience

Dear Ben Masada

Would you be interested in purchasing this nice shiny mirror.

Regards
Casewithscience

10/2/2011 2:50:18 PM

Old Viking

Wow! Did that make you dizzy, Ben?

10/2/2011 3:00:54 PM

David B.

"he cannot say for sure that he knows that God does not exist, or he will be taken as a fool"

I am as sure that God does not exist as I am that the Earth is not flat and that the Sun does not orbit around it.

10/2/2011 3:33:46 PM

myheadhurts

Someone's critical thinking teacher needs to be fired... or a good one hired pronto.

10/2/2011 3:44:20 PM

Nicole

"It stands the reason then, that atheists cannot be sure about anything or they will be taken by fools."

So if I don't believe in your god, your people will come and kidnap me?

10/2/2011 3:44:23 PM

farpadokly

For the atheist, knowledge about something comes from the senses. This is called empirical evidence. When there is absolutely no evidence, his natural conclusion is that God does not exist. To not be able to prove that something does not exist, or not being 100% sure that something does not exist, is not somehow the same as believing that it does exist. Please buy Logic for Dummies and try again.

10/2/2011 3:56:01 PM

Jeff D.

Similarly, I can not say for certain that the bogeyman is not hiding in my closet, else I will e taken for a fool. Ergo, I have no choice but to believe the Bogeyman is in my closet.

Shit, son, I'm not an atheist, but this train of thought rides on rails of pure handwavium.

10/2/2011 4:35:55 PM

John

The classic argument from ignorance fallacy: "if you can't prove I'm wrong, I'm automatically right." - i.e., if you can't prove God doesn't exist, He must exist.

10/2/2011 6:34:25 PM

Raised by Horses

And for his next trick, Mr. Masada will prove definitively and beyond all doubt that we are, in fact, NOT just brains living in nutrient-filled vats.

10/2/2011 6:39:23 PM

J. James

Another thing that comes to mind is that there is not a single fact in this argument. It is completely and utterly hot air.

Essentily, he's trying to substitute empirical data and factual proof with hilariously flawed logic and verbal chicanery.

I think this is just another example of something that's becoming increasingly bog-standard among creationists. Using Philosophy(read: Fallacy) in the stead of facts because they have all been disproven so soundly that even people on the street can demolish them.

After all, if you make no factual claims whatsoever, there's nothing that can refute, RIGHT???

10/2/2011 6:44:32 PM

moose

Also according to the atheistic approach, I cannot say for sure that the tooth fairy, easter bunny, santa claus, rudolph the red nosed reindeer, Yosimite Sam, Bugs Bunny, or Humpty Dumpty exists. But I have gone out on a limb and declared them to be nothing more than mythology. Does that make me a fool?
But...I said nothing about the great pumpkin. I still think this halloween he will come.....

10/2/2011 7:50:11 PM

Adrian




@tmarcl:
If he knew for sure that God existed, he would not have to say that he believes in God.

Huh? What? If he knew for certain that God existed, he would have to state that he believes in god. Much in the same way that I believe in the computer in front of me, or the chair beneath me. Both objectively exist.


It looks like the fundie is attempting to re-use some half-understood line about the difference between knowledge and faith/belief (i.e. if someone had actual evidence that Biblegod existed, he wouldn't believe in God, he'd know for a fact that he is real. Somehow, fundies seem to consider belief without evidence/blind trust in their imaginary friend to be superior to/nobler than hard, solid knowledge... Probably a sort of "sour grapes" reaction, since faith is all they have) Of course it isn't relevant to his "point", but I guess he believes that it makes him sound intelligent or educated.

10/2/2011 10:25:26 PM

Pule Thamex

Any fool knows that God exists and they therefore must believe in Him. Any fool knows that English is perfectly pliable, as are all languages, such that all words point to God's existence. For example, we know God exists because of the word "atheist", any fool could tell you that mankind could not have invented pliable language without God's divine intercession. In fact, God's pliable definitions trump current usage and all dictionary definitions for all languages, for ever. Also, no wonder He's invisible, He doesn't need to show Himself when the words that He gave us reveal Him in all His wondrous glory, as any fool will tell you. Also, to actually see God would turn you insane or, at best, make you exceedingly foolish. You can see the truth of this for yourselves by the holy quality of this comment or by the babble of the original quote.

10/3/2011 12:40:08 AM

Gypsin

logic fail. good try though.

10/3/2011 12:48:14 AM

Gimpo Pop Eyes

It's all to do with the scarcity of water in deserts. The ancient middle eastern desert dwellers would always be certain to take a few copiously drooling fools with them for their wet quality in a dry environment. What better way to cultivate drooling fools and dribbling morons than to invent a God for them to believe in?

10/3/2011 12:57:20 AM
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