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Quote# 84089

My argument all along has been that the purpose of the First Amendment is to protect the free exercise of the Christian religion.

One evidence that [the Founding Fathers] were not dealing ... they weren't even intending to deal with non-Christian religions is what they did with Mormonism in the latter part of the nineteenth century. Mormonism - they call themselves by the name of Christ, but it is not an orthodox Christian network of churches, it just is not. Mormonism is not an orthodox Christian faith. It just is not. They have a different Gospel, they have a completely different definition of who Christ is and so forth, I mean, the list could be multiplied endlessly.

And it was very clear that the Founding Fathers did not intend to preserve automatically religious liberty for non-Christian faiths, so when Mormonism came along, they practiced polygamy, they believed in polygamy, just like Muslims do today. It was a part of their revealed religion. God had commanded Joseph Smith to have multiple wives and commanded Joseph Smith to go tell your wife Emma, look you gotta room, I want my son Joseph to be able to have as many wives as he wants so you're just going to have to accept it. So God is telling Emma through Joseph Smith, look you're just going to have to live with this deal. So multiple wives in the Mormon Church until 1890 when the Mormon Church told their folks to obey the law.

The Mormon Church, by the way, has never denounced the practice of polygamy. It has not. What it did in 1890, if you go back to the Doctrines and Covenants, what the Mormon Church did is they advised - it wasn't even an order - they advised the members of the LDS Church to obey the law which said one man, one woman, period. So my guess is that if those that are trying to legalize polygamy, and they are working on it right now ... [Fischer cites court case pushing for recognition of polygamy and says it the same as using courts to push for gay marriage] ... If there is some activist court that says you have to recognize polygamous marriages in your state, you're going to start seeing the LDS church, I believe go back to the exercise of polygamy. If it's legal, because all they told their folks is obey the law, if the law says you can have multiple wives, I believe the LDS Church will be out in the front of the pack.

I mean, not everybody in the LDS Church is going to do it any more than all the members of the LDS Church ever did it. It was a minority even in Joseph Smith's day - I mean, Brigham Young set some kind of world record for number of wives, I mean he was up there in Muhammad territory frankly. But most Mormons didn't do it, it was just a small percentage that had the resources to be able to do it. But I think it will come back, it will come back pretty vigorously in the Mormon Church, again, because all the church fathers said in 1890, just obey the law. Well, if the law says you can have multiple wives, they'll be back.

Bryan Fischer, Right Wing Watch 55 Comments [10/6/2011 3:23:15 AM]
Fundie Index: 59
Submitted By: Rabbit of Caerbannog
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Doctor Whom

Tell us about the home situations of the OT patriarchs.

10/6/2011 3:31:37 AM

jsonitsac

"Where the preamble [to the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom] declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting 'Jesus Christ,' so that it would read 'A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;' the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."-- Thomas Jefferson

10/6/2011 4:11:50 AM

Percy Q. Shunn

the purpose of the First Amendment is to protect the free exercise of the Christian religion

Actually, you could not be more incorrect. It is not for christianity exclusively. It is for the free exercise of all religions.

Numbnut.

10/6/2011 4:17:47 AM

SpukiKitty

Mr. Fishhead, listen....THE FOUNDERS WANTED A SECULAR SOCIETY! THE FIRST AMENDMENT APPLIES TO EVERYBODY! THE FOUNDERS WERE DEISTS, ATHEISTS, NOMINAL MAINSTREAM CHRISTIANS & FREEMASONS! THE FOUNDERS WERE PRODUCTS OF "THE ENLIGHTENMENT"! THEIR WORLDVIEW WAS LIKE VOLTARE'S! THE MAINSTREAM MORMONS DON'T ENDORSE POLYGAMY! YOUR OLD TESTAMENT BIBLE HEROES LOVED POLYGAMY! DAVID & SOLOMON HAD HUNDREDS OF WIVES AND CONCUBINES! YOU ARE A MAJOR NIMROD...AND I DON'T MEAN THE MIGHTY WARRIOR-HUNTER KING WHO BUILT THE TOWER OF BABEL...I MEAN A TOTAL IDIOT-LOSER! SHUT UP!!!!

Thank you.

10/6/2011 4:18:47 AM

Sadhuman

I am all for polygamy as long as all the people are happy and willing to be in the relationship. It doesn't break my bones nor pick my pocket as it were. Also the Founding Fathers of your country kinda made it clear they meant all religions and atheists to be protected by the first amendment not just your practical version of Christianity.

How can someone not from your country know more about your founding then you do?

10/6/2011 4:41:41 AM

N. De Plume

The Founders lived in the late 19th Century now?


Listen, if the Founders wanted to only protect Christianity, they would have written the First Amendment so it only applied to Christianity. It’s not that difficult a concept.

10/6/2011 4:59:35 AM

Mister Spak

But Islam existed before the constitution, so the constitution intended muslims to have freedom of religion. However, your little extremist cult did not exist at the time of the founding fathers so they did not intend for you to have freedom of religion.

10/6/2011 5:06:25 AM

dionysus

And it was very clear that the Founding Fathers did not intend to preserve automatically religious liberty for non-Christian faiths

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."

-Thomas Jefferson

Oh look, you're a fucking liar, what a surprise.

One evidence that [the Founding Fathers] were not dealing ... they weren't even intending to deal with non-Christian religions is what they did with Mormonism in the latter part of the nineteenth century.

Unless you're stupid enough to think the founding fathers lived into the late 1800s (I'm not denying the possibility that you might be) what does the action of future people prove about what the founding fathers wanted? Does the Supreme Court's Roe v Wade decision prove that the founding fathers were pro choice? Oh wait, I forgot that they only agree with the items on YOUR agenda. How convenient.

10/6/2011 5:24:45 AM

Zeus Almighty

"Brigham Young set some kind of world record for number of wives, I mean he was up there in Muhammad territory frankly."

Why didn't you say that he was up there in Solomon territory?
Oh, never mind. Mustn't remind your idiots that their fairy tales are very similar to those of those brown religions.

10/6/2011 5:31:21 AM

Dr. Shrinker

Deifying the founding fathers the way you have hardly seems to be an orthodox expression of Christianity either.

You and your ilk can imagine whatever you wish about the FF. It really doesn't make a difference. The Constitution does not say anything, it does not even imply, that the 1st Amendment or the prohibition against religious tests to hold office exist exclusively to protect Christians. The courts have ruled repeatedly that these laws exist to protect all faiths, including the ones that you arbitrarily designate as your enemies Mr. Fishcer. The rule of law trumps your fantasies about the FF wanting to establish an American theocracy.

10/6/2011 5:55:54 AM

QuasiRodent

Uh, is it just me or does this not make any sense at all?

I read it thusly:
The Founding Fathers didn't intend to deal with non-Christian faiths because of something they did. Mormons showed up and started practicing polygamy until the US legal system made them stop.

What did the founding fathers do exactly? Other than to proclaim that they wanted a separation of church and state and peaceful co-existence with Muslims?

10/6/2011 6:12:27 AM

toth

TIL the Founding Fathers lived until the latter part of the nineteenth century. They were all over 100 years old.

10/6/2011 6:29:37 AM

TGRwulf

Utter bucket of fail right in the first sentence, and then the rest is just bashing other faiths.

Classic fundie.

10/6/2011 6:32:38 AM

Mrs. Antichrist

One evidence that [the Founding Fathers] were not dealing ... they weren't even intending to deal with non-Christian religions is what they did with Mormonism in the latter part of the nineteenth century.

Those founding fathers such were long-lived...

10/6/2011 7:06:55 AM

Doubting Thomas

My argument all along has been that the purpose of the First Amendment is to protect the free exercise of the Christian religion.

You are totally correct sir, but only if you mean also every other religion that people could possibly invent or believe in, or no religion at all. Yeah, the founding fathers loved Christianity so much, they mentioned it specifically in the Constitution. Yeah they didn't.

10/6/2011 7:17:09 AM

Skatepunk

First of all, the founders said "freedom of religion". They said nothing of giving rights ONLY to Christians.

Second, Mitt Romney would like to have a word with you. Hopefully he wins the GOP nomination just so I can see your reaction. He's really the only hope for the GOP anyway, seeing as most of the current candidates are fundies.

10/6/2011 7:51:06 AM

Joe Mama

So the Founding Fathers all lived to be around 200 years old? Because they were already old men in the 1770's, so I don't think they'd have made it to the late 19th century when Mormonism was invented.

If Bryan is another one of these idiots who claim that the Establishment Clause only means that the government can't favor one denomination of Christianity over another, then I'm going to have to bitch slap him into submission.

Mormonism is another Christian religion anyway. Deal with it. The "not true Christians" doesn't work.

10/6/2011 7:58:12 AM

Anon-e-moose

"My argument all along has been that the purpose of the First Amendment is to protect the free exercise of the Christian religion."

So why did the Founding Fathers make no mention of 'God', 'Jesus' or at least the word 'Creator' in the very document the 1st Amendment is contained in, hmmmmmmm?! A few clues, pal:

'Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded prospect'

'In no instance have... the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people'

-James Madison

'There is more need for lighthouses in our country than churches.'

'But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.'

'Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear'

'I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.'

'Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man'

-Thomas Jefferson

I love the smell of arguments blasted out of the space-time continuum in the morning. Smells like... victory.

10/6/2011 8:31:06 AM

Brendan Rizzo

No, the First Amendment refers to all religions (and to atheism, for that matter.) The Framers were a Genre Savvy bunch; when civil rights were at stake, they were VERY specific. If they had only intended religious freedom for Christians, they would have said so. But they didn't, and in fact the most influential Framers spoke highly of Islam, and secularism. If they were alive today, you'd be calling them terrorist sympathizers, I'm sure. (But it doesn't matter what they themselves believed, of course. The Constitution as originally written kept slavery legal. It's the Amendments (specifically the 14th, which pretty much says discrimination is illegal) and modern interpretations of the document which matter.) Again, since nowhere in the Constitution is Christianity singled out, you're a lying sleazeball.

I don't like Mormonism either (Stephenie Meyer and, after he went nuts, Orson Scott Card, are disgraces to literature, for starters) but I respect their Constitutional right to religious freedom. I hope that Glenn Beck and Mitt Romney don't hear what you have to say about them, Fischer. I'll just sit back and watch the fundie fight now.

10/6/2011 8:40:21 AM

farpadokly

If the "Founding Fathers" had wanted to protect the "free exercise of the Christian religion" then that's exactly what they would've said. In fact, as I've said before, if they were such strong Christians, why did they bother writing a constitution at all? Why did they not just adopt Mosaic law as the law of their new republic?

10/6/2011 8:42:52 AM

Agahnim

Treaty of Tripoli, bitch.

10/6/2011 9:07:06 AM

TheJebusFire

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find
in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They
are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men,
women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been
burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this
coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to
support roguery and error all over the earth."
-Thomas Jefferson

John Adams
"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines
and Oaths, and whole cartloads of other trumpery that we find religion
encumbered with in these days?"

Also Adams
"The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for
absurdity."

Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states
"The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the
Christian religion."

Here's Thomas Paine
"I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to
that book (the Bible)."

"Among the most detesable villains in history, you could not find one worse
than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to
massacre the mothers, and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not
dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book
(the Bible)."

"It is the duty of every true Diest to vindicate the moral justice of God
against the evils of the Bible."

"Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins...and
you will have sins in abundance."

And; "The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in
pretend imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty."

10/6/2011 9:16:42 AM

Berny

My argument all along has been that the purpose of the First Amendment is to protect the free exercise of the Christian religion.

No.
Just, no.
Please read the fucking thing again and try to understand it this time.

10/6/2011 9:20:26 AM

freako104

It does protect Christian faiths such as Mormonism. As well as Pagan faiths, Islam and Judaism as well as all other belief systems as well as the lack of one.

10/6/2011 10:01:36 AM

Papabear

God told me not to listen to you because you're an idiot. Hey, God said, I believe it, that settles it.

10/6/2011 10:37:52 AM
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