Ivanhoe #fundie

Ivanhoe #fundie puritanboard.com

("Suppose you were witnessing to an atheist and you shared with him Romans 1:18-32. If he insists that he does not know God, that he is not suppressing any truth, and that there are many reasons for doubting God's existence, then what do you say to him? Do you present the transcendental argument?")

Just tell him you are an "a-atheist" and do not believe in atheists, thus shifting the burden of proof to him.

91 comments

old comment by Zosimus the Heathen

[Looks at where this particular gem came from]

The Puritan Board? THE PURITAN BOARD?! Oh good Lord, that name says it all! Do you guys still dunk witches and wear the funny hats?

A-atheism is a perfectly respectable stance, I have no problem with it, For a start it's true. I, for example, don't actually exist. So when you see me walking down town, or when you knock on my front door, then you are wasting your time trying to talk to me. someone who doesn't exist. It's a bit like praying to Bible God or praying to any of the world's myriad man-made Gods and assorted fantasy figures.

If you think I just wrote this, then you are mistaken. How could I? I don't exist.

Oh God, you're not that man who wasn't there, are you? The one I keep meeting upon the stair?

old comment by Anon-e-moose

And I'd simply reply: 'Without the use of mere 'words' in your so-called 'Bible', prove the existence of your so-called 'God' to my satisfaction. And the only possible way you can is to make him appear before me (and that's God himself, not Jesus) in hard, solid, physical form that can be seen, heard and touched. Then, he must prove he is what he says he is, via demonstrations of his power, again, to my satisfaction; in my case, if that means he must do whatever I say in perpetuity, so be it.

Them's the terms, they're not up for negotiation.'

PROTIP: A rainbow doesn't actually physically exist, but at least it can be seen. An easily replicatable, falsifiable (and therefore provable) scientific experiment annihilates any & all philosophical 'concepts'.

Schrodinger thought up his, way before the invention of tiny wireless video cameras, and Perspex. [/smartarse]

Next question.

old comment by moose

Ah yes, if it isnt the old christinsane fantasy that secretly all people, including atheist actually believe in gawd. Well then, can I insist that you believe in Peter Pan? Or the Easter bunny? And....so what if I really, deep down actually believe there was some sort of deity? Is there anything in that fantasy of yours that demands that such belief would be of your silly 3 in 1, father of himself through a virgin (without her knowledge of sex) gawd????
Ok then, .....I believe the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the gawd of the universe and all creation, and good Italian restaurants. Now....I guess you have proved me a theist. So now what is your argument....????

old comment by farpadokly

"Shifting the burden of proof to him" So what does he have to prove? The existence of atheists? That wouldn't take very long, since there is ample physical proof of the existence of atheists. Show him a picture of Richard Dawkins.
Also, he could respond, at the same level, "I'm an a-a-atheist", shifting the burden of proof back to you. You could offer proof that an "a-atheist" exists but you still haven't offered any evidence for your original claim.
A claims something. B disbelieves this claim. A disbelieves that B exists, or that his disbelief exists. It does not follow that A's claim is thereby proven, especially when there is physical evidence that B exists.
And if B's disbelief can be doubted to exist, then so, by the same token, can A's belief.

old comment by checkmate

Ok, so lets have a look at Romans 1:18-32:

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualitieshis eternal power and divine naturehave been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Blah, blah, yada, yada ...

Hmm, so the Jesus witness is expecting to convince us that the Bible is right because it says so in the Bible.

This is one of the most fascinating things about the Jesus devout: they just can't fathom that the Bible has no meaning to a non-believer.

Infidel: "I don't believe in God and accordingly don't believe any of the God stuff in the Bible. In my opinion the Bible is just a tainted history book mixed up with a huge load of mythology."

Faithful: "But the Bible says that God exists, so it has to be true, I mean, come on, it's the Bible."

Infidel: "You don't seem to understand. I don't believe what the Bible says, the same as I don't believe in the Greek pantheon, Babylonian mythology, the Aztec gods, etc."

Faithful: "In that case the Bible says you're doomed to burn in Hell. Is that what you want?"

Infidel: "You just don't get it, do you?"

old comment by tmarcl

Just tell him you are an "a-atheist" and do not believe in atheists, thus shifting the burden of proof to him.

Except, well, the individual would be standing right in front of you, so, it would be rather easy to prove his existence.

Before you argue that you mean he would have to prove there is no god, let me stop you. In order for him to meet your burden of proof, all he would have to prove is that he calls himself an atheist. That is, that he claims he doesn't believe in gods.

Now, you might might think that he really does believe in god(s), but that's irrelevant - the point is, that he calls himself an atheist, and thus, has proven his own existence.

Ivanhoe #fundie puritanboard.com

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