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Quote# 84466

At least three people in London with HIV have died after they stopped taking life saving drugs on the advice of their Evangelical Christian pastors.

The women died after attending churches in London where they were encouraged to stop taking the antiretroviral drugs in the belief that God would heal them, their friends and a leading HIV doctor said.

...Jane Iwu, 48, from Newham, east London, described one case, saying: "I know of a friend who had been to a pastor. She told her to stop taking her medication - that God is a healer and has healed her."

"This lady believed it. She stopped taking her medication. She passed away," said Ms Iwu, who has HIV herself.

.. the Synagogue Church Of All Nations (SCOAN), which has UK headquarters in Southwark, south London, may be one of those involved in such practices.

The church is headed by Pastor T B Joshua, Nigeria's third richest clergyman, according to a recent Forbes richlist.

When approached by BBC London, leaders of the church described themselves as Evangelical Christian pastors.

The church's website, which was set up in Lagos, Nigeria, shows photos of people the church claims have been "cured" of HIV through prayer.

In one example, the church's website claims: "Mrs Badmus proudly displays her two different medical records confirming she is 100% free from HIV-Aids following the prayer of Pastor T B Joshua."

"HIV-Aids healing" is listed on the church's website among "miracles" it says it can perform.

"Cancer healing" and "baby miracles" are also advertised.



SCOAN, BBC News 66 Comments [10/30/2011 4:46:08 AM]
Fundie Index: 96
Submitted By: Damned at Random
WTF?! || meh
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SpukiKitty

@The_L
I'm with you 100%!

Religious groups like this are slime. Faith only works when paired with reason. Faith without reason only produces stupidity like this. For Heaven's sakes! St. Luke was a DOCTOR! Godde works THROUGH doctors & other people! We all all Godde, Para Brahman, Adi Shakti, the Supreme Being....The Omniverse (there are many alternate Universes/timelines). Prayer, Meditation, etc. works only in concert with mundane, medical means. The former supplements & enhances the later (even if it's possibly a placebo).

Of course, this is MY personal view. No one HAS to ascribe to it.

Some are Theists. Some are Atheists. Some are Agnostic. Some are Deists. Some are Pantheists. The only evil is Fundamentalism & rejection of Logic, Common Sense & Reason.

This disgusting "Church" should be shut down!

10/30/2011 9:08:15 AM

aaa

This is both exploitive and danger to public health in many, many ways.

10/30/2011 9:12:52 AM

SpukiKitty

@aaa

You got THAT right!

10/30/2011 9:15:59 AM



Now you know that it doesn't work. Stop lying.

10/30/2011 9:22:52 AM

farpadokly

This is a good example of the inordinate respect given to religions. If this was just a secular organisation encouraging people not to take their medication, I'm sure something could be done about it. A lot of these African churches have too much power over their congregations because of undue deference to their "pastors", who are busy making money off them and otherwise exploiting them. That always seems to go with organised religion.

10/30/2011 9:32:18 AM

cdcdrr

That's just evil, acquiring power and wealth by exploiting and spreading ignorance. This snake-oil salesman should be tried.

10/30/2011 9:37:20 AM

Headache

Great!

Weed these morons out of the gene pool. I just hope they didn't reproduce prior to dieing!

10/30/2011 9:48:34 AM

Greater Good

Sad to see that the more secular nations still aren't immune to this kind of tragedy.

10/30/2011 9:52:23 AM

Osiris

And this is why religion sickens me. It's not just Christians either, this runs the gambit from New Age holistic medicine to Christian faith healing. Only one type of healing has ever gotten results and it's science. Anyone who rejects that in favor of something that has never worked ever, is an idiot. But that doesn't mean they deserve to have some well dressed vultures feeding them false hope and fake cures.

10/30/2011 10:09:58 AM

Anon

>>whoanelly: This is murder. Pure and simple.

EDIT: yeah, I know, the victims chose to believe their dumbfuck pastors. But still, this makes me furious.

#1345069: This sort of thing needs to be prosecuted as murder. <<

In the US at least, you could probably make a case for depraved-heart murder, arguing that convincing people to not take their meds shows a callous disregard for human life. I don't know what charges would stick in the UK.

10/30/2011 10:27:09 AM

nazani14

Except for the profit made from 'love offerings,' this isn't much different from other fundies and the New Age anti-vaccers. These people had nothing to say while polio and smallpox were wiped out, but now that we're facing an inevitable killer influenza, they become conspiracy theory nuts. I'd be happy to see them all wiped out, except that they'll take so many seniors and babies with them.

10/30/2011 10:32:28 AM

Brendan Rizzo

@ Headache:

Oh come on now. I DEMAND that you claim that everyone in the UK is a science-denying fundie maniac because of this. After all, didn't you say that in response to the American fundie quoted directly after this? When you implied that all Americans are warhawks? Don't think I've forgotten that.

@ Everyone else:

And now to actually speak my mind on the matter, this was a tragedy. It makes me furious that people could do this in this age of science. It goes completely against how I think human beings would behave. Just like how the very existence of sociopaths is an affront to all I hold dear about the human race, I literally cannot comprehend why, in gatherings of people, the stupid always prevail. I feel a bit sick...

10/30/2011 10:37:37 AM

Murdin

This is worse, much worse than it sounds. The medication does not just prolong the lives of those infected with VIH. By decreasing the viral load to minute levels, it also reduces its infectivity. Considerably so. The efficiency is about on part with that of the preservative. People who are treated against AIDS are much less likely to ever transmit the disease, despite living longer lives.

Those people aren't just ruining the lives of their parishioners. They are helping the epidemic to spread. They are guilty of much more than leading a few people to their premature deaths. This is a public issue and should be treated as such.

10/30/2011 11:20:21 AM

Brandy Bogard

@Headache

Why the fucking hell aren't you banned yet?!

10/30/2011 12:04:19 PM

\m/>_<\m/

there should be a law.

freedom of faith is one thing, but ignorance is another: boost awareness!

10/30/2011 12:12:40 PM

TheJebusFire

Faith within reason is okay.
Faith without reason is just stupid.

10/30/2011 2:07:56 PM

checkmate

The church's website, which was set up in Lagos, Nigeria

Lagos, Nigeria. What else?

This fits right in with the very common Nigerian religious mix of Christianity with Juju magic. They don't see any contradiction.

Throw in a large dose of typical Nigerian fraud, especially 419 fraud, greed and graft, and this is what you get.

Don't expect any remorse over the deaths. Daily life in Lagos is worse, so they couldn't give a shit.

10/30/2011 3:57:00 PM

Dalillama

@#1345033

No one said anything about rape, just suggested that the pastors should be given HIV. It would be perfectly possible to do that with a simple injection.

10/30/2011 5:45:13 PM

TB Tabby

I hate sharing initials with vermin like Pastor Joshua.

10/30/2011 6:08:12 PM

Doubting Thomas

Again, this is Darwinism at work. If more and more superstitious idiots die off, then perhaps mankind will be better off.

The sad part is, though, that these deaths could have been prevented if these people would open their eyes and stop listening to these sleazebag pastors.

10/30/2011 6:41:14 PM

Pete Probe the Alien

You know, it always fascinated me that fundies tend to go on and on, wax poetic ad infinitum about how great and powerful their God is. How little he needs mankind; and, by extension, how much we need him in contrast. Yet, at the same time, they relate to God in ways more befitting of an ATM machine than an omnipotent (and sometimes wrathful) creator. Just pop a prayer-check into the slot and He'll cash out your every desire! People get sick: deal with it appropriately. I thought another common adage was God helps those who help themselves, not those who remain mired in ignorance and apparently brain addled enough to stop taking virus-suppressing medication when they have one of the greatest scourges of modern mankind since Twilight. And considering that babies have been raped and devout followers murdered with no divinely inspired lightning bolts from above to intervene, I don't think you should bank your chances on being one of God's chosen few that he decides to listen to in the course of a milennia or two.

10/30/2011 7:22:40 PM

Night Jaguar

"The church is headed by Pastor T B Joshua, Nigeria's third richest clergyman, according to a recent Forbes richlist."

It takes a lot to be really scummy even by Nigerian fraud standards.

10/30/2011 7:46:28 PM

Zaydin

Any chance the clergy at these churches could be charged with manslaughter?

10/30/2011 8:59:05 PM

Adrian

"In one example, the church's website claims: "Mrs Badmus proudly displays her two different medical records confirming she is 100% free from HIV-Aids following the prayer of Pastor T B Joshua."

"HIV-Aids healing" is listed on the church's website among "miracles" it says it can perform.

"Cancer healing" and "baby miracles" are also advertised."


Regrettable though it is, being scared/desperate and gullible isn't a crime; abusing the trust of particularly vulnerable individuals, on the other hand... Let's just say that it is probably a good thing for "Pastor" Joshua and his accomplices that no penal code would allow a judge to give them the sentence they deserve, namely having them stuffed, mounted and put on display in a museum as specimen of Christian witch-doctors.

10/31/2011 12:33:24 AM

Tolpuddle Martyr

POS should be tried for manslaughter!

10/31/2011 12:58:51 AM
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