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Quote# 85309

"...moderate Muslims are too quiet, too reluctant to become a force for reform within the larger Muslim community."

Kinda hard to be zealous when what you're wanting to preach is anti-zealotry: "Come on, people! Take religion less seriously! Tone down that whole 'submission to Allah' thing! Can't belief and unbelief just...I don't know...get along?" Kinda like telling Christians they need to mention Jesus less or take a few Sundays off. What's the appeal? To be more like a secular America? Yeah, there's a moral paragon for you. We can't even tell men from women anymore, and we'd rather kill 800,000 kids a year than discourage or, God forbid, restrict wanton sex. "Be more like us" isn't going to sell to radicals any more than it sells -- or *should* sell -- to moderates.

Mike P., National Review Online 50 Comments [12/21/2011 5:31:38 AM]
Fundie Index: 50
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quinky

Starts reasonably. Takes a sharp left turn into loony land. We can't tell men from women anymore? Holy hell, that shit was old when they started saying it in the sixties.

12/21/2011 5:40:06 AM

Philbert McAdamia

Ah, the Anti-Zealot. Worse than the Anti-Christ, this guy is really against Christians, and fundies everywhere.

12/21/2011 6:43:06 AM

Brendan Rizzo

You are right. No society in its right mind would like to be more like the contemporary United States. It is obvious that everyone should be aspiring to be more like Canada or Western Europe, but then we have Republicans who will stop at NOTHING to hold the rest of us back.

12/21/2011 6:48:06 AM

WWWWolf

In other words: "'Be less like a raging morons'? Pfft. Fat chance of that ever happening with Muslims. Just look at how Christianity is done properly, in my opinion: we're raging morons, and that's the way we like it."

12/21/2011 7:01:19 AM

Pilotess

In a weird way, I can see his point - not that I agree with him, but he makes a crazy nutjob point here!

If done correctly, one couldn't tell Christianity from Islam anyway!

12/21/2011 7:10:26 AM

Panz

Got a deal for ya, you keep religion out of laws, government, public, stop the fanatics from blowing shit up, killing people, ragging on everyone that isn't in their little cult and oppressing others and we'll talk, ok

12/21/2011 7:17:56 AM

Doubting Thomas

Actually, this is pretty spot on. Moderate Christians say "Happy Holidays" to people and the fanatical Christians go ballistic over some imagined "war on Christmas." Moderate Christians tell fundies to tone it down a bit, and the fundies scream about some imagined "war on Christianity." Atheists and moderate Christians think that religious displays shouldn't be placed on public property, and the fundies go apeshit.

Of course, Mike P here is part of the problem, since he has such a huge problem with abortion rights or keeping his nose out of people's sex lives, not to mention wanting to legislate morality and making everyone conform to his beliefs. If only he could see how much he has in common with fanatical Muslims.

12/21/2011 7:19:38 AM

The_L

There is so much stupid in this entire fucking comment that I don't know where to begin. And the first sentence was so promising, too. :(

12/21/2011 7:24:39 AM

aaa

I don't think showing everyone your collective disregard for the lives of others is going to help improve your country's image.

12/21/2011 7:37:59 AM



What if I like wanton sex?

12/21/2011 7:43:43 AM

Mad_Jester

"We'd rather kill 800,000 kids a year than" blargity blarg blarg. Um, no KIDS are being killed. Zygotes and embryos are being expunged- only slightly less simple or moral a process than having a skin-tag removed.

And does this moron actually think that 'wanton sex' is a recent development? I ASSURE you, Puritans were knocking boots on the Mayflower on the trip to America in the first place.

12/21/2011 7:55:12 AM

shykid

"...moderate Muslims are too quiet, too reluctant to become a force for reform within the larger Muslim community."

This is a perfectly reasonable statement. A similar argument could be made with regard to Christians if it weren't for the Christian privilege in this country. It already prevents most people from automatically stereotyping all Christians as radical nutjobs or looking upon them with suspicion, despite the fact that there is small but very vocal minority of Christians who are hellbent on bombing abortion clinics, oppressing LGBT people, and legally instituting the Christian equivalent of Sharia law.

"Kinda hard to be zealous when what you're wanting to preach is anti-zealotry"

It is a fallacy to assume that most Muslims are fundamentalist zealots, while those who aren't fundamentalist zealots exist simply because they don't take anything seriously enough to be passionate about it. Muslims are no more or less radical than Christians, and their level of radicalism does not correlate with their conviction in their faith or their capacity for empathy with others any more or less than those things correlate for Christians.

"What's the appeal? To be more like a secular America?"

No. The appeal is everybody getting along, respecting one another, and having the freedom to live their best life free from impediments based on the real-world equivalent of high-school cliques. One way of achieving that is by respecting members of all faiths (or the lack thereof), which requires having a secular government that does not favor or disfavor any religion (or the lack thereof). Proving (or disproving) any particular religion is more or less, by definition, impossible. Religion also has no bearing whatsoever on our current life in the physical world, aside from the presence of fundamentalists who are unwaveringly determined to force their religion on everyone at any cost.

"We can't even tell men from women anymore..."

Why the hell does it even matter?

"...and we'd rather kill 800,000 kids a year than discourage or, God forbid, restrict wanton sex."

You claim to care so much about unborn babies, but once they're actually born, but after they are born, they can fuck off and die for all you care, because if you have anything to say about it, they ain't gettin' no welfare check offa ur taxpayer dime. Infant mortality is not "pro-life" in any sense of the word.

Also, how does "we can't even tell men from women anymore" even factor into this? Wouldn't "wanton" gay sex be better than "wanton" straight sex if that means fewer abortions? And if you're straight, wouldn't having sex with an androgynous man be easier than having sex with a manly man? What's wrong with "wanton" sex, anyway, if sex education and access to contraceptives prevent unwanted pregnancies and abortions?

12/21/2011 7:59:53 AM

dionysus

Kinda hard to be zealous when what you're wanting to preach is anti-zealotry: "Come on, people! Take religion less seriously! Tone down that whole 'submission to Allah' thing! Can't belief and unbelief just...I don't know...get along?"

Actually, I'm rather passionately anti-zealot and I will tell other people I share common ground with when they're being way out of line. Because, one, I find extremism of any kind to be damaging and, two, extremists make my legitimate positions look bad.

We can't even tell men from women anymore

Then you have issues, because I can tell them apart quite easily the vast majority of the time. Hint: girls have boobies.

we'd rather kill 800,000 kids a year than discourage or, God forbid, restrict wanton sex

Or how about we teach the proper use of contraceptives through comprehensive sex ed programs? That way we have less abortions and we can stop living in a fantasy world where we pretend that abstinence works.

12/21/2011 8:00:36 AM

Raised by Horses

I'm pretty sure this poster is upset about something, but it doesn't look like he's made his mind up about what it is.

@1359534

Don't forget about gratuitous cuddling.

12/21/2011 8:04:37 AM

John

we'd rather kill 800,000 kids a year than discourage or, God forbid, restrict wanton sex.

Mike would rather kill 800,000 kids a year than provide sex education or easier access to birth control or food or medical coverage for kids who are already alive - proof that he's more concerned with keeping people from having recreational sex than he is about children or the 800,000 fetuses.

12/21/2011 8:19:05 AM

Anon-e-moose

And you were going so well, right up to:

"Yeah, there's a moral paragon for you."

...then it was a case of 'Hello Mr. Face, meet Mr. Palm!' Your insistence that America's 'morals' results in people wanting to be what they really are, and individual women having the right to decide what they do with their body, least of all what happens behind closed doors by adult, consenting people - as per a democratic, free country - isn't going to endear you to the very people you're trying to appeal to, Mikey-boy.

The word 'Talibangelists'. It exists for a reason. So does the phrase 'Separation of Church and State'. Otherwise, Saudi Arabia/Iran, 'Fundamentalist State of America'. Six of one, half-a-dozen of the other.

Be seeing you. [/"The Prisoner"]

12/21/2011 8:22:46 AM



I will admit that I have seen a few people that were hard to tell what sex they were, but I am perfectly willing to let those just pass me by.

The issue I think the bit on moderate Muslims has its points that if all you see are the nutcase fringe then thats what you assume all Muslims are like.

The concept of "I won't stick Allah in your face and wave him around if you keep Jesus to yourself" has a lot of merit.


12/21/2011 8:33:27 AM



"we'd rather kill 800,000 kids a year than discourage or, God forbid, restrict wanton sex."

Finally, a fundie admits the real reason they want to outlaw abortion is to punish women for having sex.

12/21/2011 8:34:05 AM

rubber chicken

If you can't tell the difference between men and women, can I borrow your wifes aftershave ?

12/21/2011 8:36:07 AM



"Kinda like telling Christians they need to mention Jesus less or take a few Sundays off."

Uh, no, it would be like telling violent fundamentalists who pose as Christians that they need to stop bombing clinics, murdering abortion providers and persecuting gays.

12/21/2011 8:38:46 AM

= POPE =

Wonton sex? Chinese food fetish? Oh! Wanton! Never mind.

Vive la non-differance! Call me old fashioned, but if I have sex with a man, I want him to look like a woman ... and vice-versa! Why not? What's it to you, buddy?

You want to forbid wanton sex? Okay, tell yourself not to have any. That should be the easy part in your case. Next, stop thinking that anyone else should give a shit about what you think. Baby steps.

12/21/2011 9:06:34 AM

Anon-e-moose

@= POPE =

"Wonton sex? Chinese food fetish?"



Meanwhile...:



Dvergr (l; the mother of Alv, above) in a Chinese dress? Souper! X3

She can 'Absorb' me anytime. :9

12/21/2011 9:58:49 AM

TheReasonator

To borrow a line from Spongebob Squarepants,

"What about aggressively nice people?"

The person does have a point. It seems like moderate Muslims are reluctant to even mention their religion or to ever wear anything displaying it.

Mike P. doesn't seem to understand what "secular" means, it doesn't mean "hide your religion" it means to have a more "live and let live" attitude towards religion.

Now secularism the way they do it in France where religious symbols are banned in public places, that's Atheist fundamentalism, not secularism!

12/21/2011 10:05:00 AM

Sherlock Holmes

@ dionysus,

Yes, but you see some of the time a man will also have boobies, and elementary my dear-it does happen that these men sometimes like to go out in disguises for some tomfoolery or at times just a little thrill. The raging queen types is typically just for thrills but sometimes its an overdone disguise.

12/21/2011 10:08:47 AM

Berny

You would think that if 800,000 kids were really being murdered that the authorities would be right on top of that.
Oh, you mean abortions. No children are murdered in abortion, and they are perfectly legal. Honestly, it isn't that hard to get straight.
As for wanton sex, it isn't any of your fucking business.

12/21/2011 10:27:06 AM
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