Quote# 85459

Homosexual attractions are symptoms of a preventable developmental disorder. Once the symptoms are observed prompt intervention and treatment can prevent a homosexuality outcome, but it is preferable to prevent the conditions which cause the disorder in the first place.

1) The best prevention of homosexuality in boys is a strong father/son relationship in which the father affirms the masculine identity of the son. Irving Bieber who conducted a comprehensive study of homosexual men found that a positive supportive relationship between father and son prevented homosexuality. This relationship should include rough and tumble play between father and son. For example, when a father tossing his young son up in the air, the boy is at first frightened but then recognizes that he can trust his father, that his father loves him, that the activity is exciting. The boy wants to do it over and over. The mother may try to intervene, but in a healthy situation the father ignores her protestations and the son learns independence from the mother. If the mother prevails and the activity ceases or never begins, the father/son bond is not firmly established. There is evidence that being tossed in the air and rough-and-tumble play in the first 3 years of life builds brain connections which lead to confidence in physical activity and may effect later coordination.

2) Second, it is absolutely essential that all adults and older children unequivocally affirm the boy's masculine identity, and show disapproval toward stereotypically girly activities and cross dressing. A simple "Boys don't do that" on the first occasion is sufficient.

3) The mother must encourage her son's competence and mastery and teach him how to overcome his fears and anxieties.

4) The mother must affirm her respect for manhood and men, particularly if the father is clearly deficient or absent.

5) The boy must have a chance to observe happy marriages close up and understand that love between husband and wife is a beautiful thing.

6) The boy needs boy playmates who share his interests.

7) The mother should be modest in front of her children and respect their modesty. Children should not observe sexual acts.

8) Children should be protected from sexual molestation by adults or other children, with a yearly admonition from their parents that if anyone tries to touch their private parts or asks them to touch his parts they are to tell immediately and that people who do such things are usually liars.

9) Parents need to teach children to forgive those who injure them, to reject envy and self-pity, and to practice virtue. The difference between boys who become homosexual and those who do not is not simply that the former were traumatized and the latter not. Almost all children experience traumas of one sort or another. The difference may be that for the homosexually attracted the trauma remained unhealed. In many cases bitterness, envy, unforgiveness, and self-pity were either allowed to fester or subtly encouraged.

D. O'Leary, Fathers for Life 63 Comments [1/4/2012 4:38:05 AM]
Fundie Index: 82

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Right, because these claims haven't already been thoroughly debunked...

1/4/2012 5:11:56 AM

Percy Q. Shunn

1/4/2012 5:37:22 AM

Raised by Horses

Another day, another fundie PRATTfall.

1/4/2012 5:38:40 AM

D Laurier

"The difference between boys who become homosexual and those who do not is not simply that the former were traumatized and the latter not."
Funny how that is refuted by myself and my freind Steven.
-I was raised in a dumping ground for unwanted children, we were beaten and raped almost daily by staff who considered us garbage.
-Steven was raised by loving parents who coddled him, and supported him in everything he tried to do.

I'm straight to the point of being boring as hell. and Steven is as gay as a whole drag queen navy on a lavender battleship.

1/4/2012 5:42:47 AM

Doubting Thomas

This relationship should include rough and tumble play between father and son.

So when the child gets older and into his teen years, he can continue rough and tumble play like nude wrestling in the locker room which totally isn't gay.

1/4/2012 7:20:30 AM


Explain all the straight kids who suffered abuse and all the gay ones who grew up in a loving home. I'm waiting! *crickets chirp* Well, that was a massive fail.

1/4/2012 7:29:17 AM

Philbert McAdamia

1) My dad dropped me a couple times, and I was a sissy for not wanting to play that game anymore.

2) Crying = sissies.

5) My folks fought every night.

8) Yearly?

9) Parents need to teach children to forgive those who injure them
finally, we get to the heart of the matter; Mr. O'Leary seeks forgiveness, not being turned in.

What about the daddy showering naked with the boy, so he can see what makes a real man?

"Ever seen a grown man naked?" _______Peter Graves, Airplane

1/4/2012 7:42:32 AM


1. Having a close male bond between father and son reduce the risk of the son having a close male bond later in life? Huh?

2. Many gay men are VERY masculine, stupid.

3. Why the mother, why not the father? Wouldn't the masculine father be the one to teach him to get over his fears and anxieties?

4. Do manhood and men deserve more respect than womanhood and women? If so, why?

5. How close up? Should he be able to observe his parents getting it on in the sack? Love between husband and wife can indeed be a beautiful thing, but so can love between wife and wife, or husband and husband, as well.

6. I had very few playmates when I was little, I turned out heterosexual regardless of that fact. But maybe loneliness is only dangerous for boys...

7. So, the children should NOT observe marriage activities close up? Good to know.

8. I agree whole-heartedly that children should not be molested by adults. This has nothing to do with heterosexuality or homosexuality, though.

9. You're utterly wrong! Correlation does not equal causation, stupid! The difference can be that the former had several older brother and the latter did not.

What about girls? Won't someone think of the girls?!?

1/4/2012 7:53:17 AM


I take it you've never heard of macho homosexuals which includes homosexual bodybuilders.

1/4/2012 7:58:11 AM


I can tick all 9.

I tried willing it away.

I'm 69 today (an interesting age!)

I'm still gay.

in other words, D. O'Leary is an idiot who hasn't a clue what he's talking about.

1/4/2012 8:23:13 AM


I can tick all 9.

I tried willing it away.

I'm 69 today (an interesting age!)

I'm still gay.

in other words, D. O'Leary is an idiot who hasn't a clue what he's talking about.

1/4/2012 8:26:13 AM


I don't play football, and I'm straight.
Homer Simpson took your advice, and decided to spend more time with Bart, so he wouldn't grow up gay. They went to the art museum. "Oh my God! The museum is full of gay people!!"

1/4/2012 8:32:16 AM


And there's no reason to think that smoking is bad for your health. Welcome to the 1950's wing of the internet museum.

1/4/2012 9:35:56 AM


Homophobia and pseudoscience with a misogyny topping.

1/4/2012 9:52:43 AM

There are many little girls who enjoy being thrown in the air and caught.

The rest of it, well we've all heard so many variants.

Homosexuality is a disease with one simple cause:

It's due to being too close to your moither.

It's due to having a cold, distant mother.

It's due to having a weak, effeminate father.

It's due to having a domineering, bullying father.

It's due to the Oedipus complex.

It's due to being an only child.

It's due to being the youngest in a large family.

It's due to masturbating.

It's due to looking at porn.

It's due to being a little prig who didn't laugh at sex jokes with the manly boys.

It's due to a homosexual first sexual experience.

It's due to having a traumatic, confusing heterosexual experience.

It's due to wishing you were a girl.

It's due to hating girls and being obsessed with big, strong, hairy men.

Et cetera ad nauseam.

They always trot out their neat "single causes" no matter how often they don't prove true.

1/4/2012 10:03:35 AM

) So...family values = having the child favor one parent over the other? Also, as Swede points out, it's kinda backwards thinking that having the male child being close to his male superior is going to make the child straight. In fact, I've seen this kind of "logic" a lot among homophobic fundies, that having a boy playing tag with his male peers will make him attracted with girls, yet if he's playing tag with some girls, somehow that'll make him attracted to guys.

2) "Masculine identity". In my observance, there's no correlation between one's gender, and one's personality associated with said gender. In other words, your gender does not determine who you are, gender is just a random attribute just like everything else about a person's individuality. If a male acts "manly", or a girl acts "girly", it's just out of random coincidence, and does not "prove" that such personalities are associated with said genders.

3) Not that this is necessarily a bad suggestion, but why is the mother doing it, as opposed to perhaps both parents? Is it just me, or is O'Leary insinuating that having both parents interacting with the child somehow make the child gay?

1/4/2012 10:05:46 AM

Continue'd from #1363194

4) Sounds more like a misogynistic advice then homophobic, but that's another story.

5) Fair enough, apart from the fact you think the "1 man + 1 woman" shtick has monopoly over love.

6) Because if he plays video games, or football with a girl, somehow it'll make him attracted to guys.

7) Know what? when O'Leary means "mother", I'm pretty sure he means women in general. So #4 IS a misogynistic advice, suggesting that he (the child) should get used to the idea that women were created for his ego. And likewise here, he's saying that women who dress provocatively will make male children be attracted to males...somehow...

8) He's suggesting this because he thinks a child being raped will make him gay. Not that this is bad advice, mind you, but more for reasons of "it'll make him gay", rather then "it'll harm him".

9) Smiler to #8: Good advice, but for the wrong reasons.

1/4/2012 10:06:26 AM


I have a cousin who grew up with all of those things. He's still gay

1/4/2012 10:08:46 AM


Piled high and deep.

1/4/2012 10:18:01 AM

Thinking Allowed

1/4/2012 10:34:47 AM


1) I have a strained at best relationship with my biological father, I still have a sexual attraction to women. I remember that tossed in the air game, I also remember being dropped from in it as well...

2) There are straight males who cross dress and there are masculine gay guys. Also guess what, I enjoy cooking, a activity stereotypically associated with femininity that my mother taught me. So what? Go back a hundred years or so and you'll see that pink was a masculine color and blue a feminine one, culture is the only thing that determines what is feminine or masculine, not sexual orientation.

3) Why just the mother? Surely there would be more benefit from both parents.

4) I learned at an early age, that not all men are jerks like my father was (which I've resolved never to be like) on my own. Also, do women not deserve the same treatment of being respected?

5) Replace "husband and wife" with "spouses" because straights have no monopoly on love. I've seen more love with my friend and his partner raising a little girl they adopted and they'll anything to make her happy than I had in my crappy childhood.

6) I had few friends until middle school, but I turned out straight. Hell, I even had friends that were girls when I was four that I'm still friends with today.

7) Why should it only be the mother whose modest? Also, something tells me that you mean when you say anything relating to mothers or women, you really mean all women.

8) Okay here's where we agree. Children have the right to grow up without being molested by anyone (broken clock being right twice a day and all that.) However, even if a child is molested it won't change their sexual orientation.

9) Some good advice, though completely wrong conclusions were reached.

Now I'll ask because you never brought them up but what about lesbians? Or you can just admit to being a misogynic homophob.

1/4/2012 10:46:09 AM

Ok, why didn´t men turn homosexuals in the second world war?, because what you wrote there is BULLSHIT.

1/4/2012 11:11:22 AM


cross-dressing male here: i may be a lot of things (including romantic asexual) but i'm not gay. unless i fall in love with a guy, but since i don't like sex, you'll just see it as "best buddies" won't you? [trope = heterosexual life partners]

anyway, you've got serious issues man. compensating for something?

speaking of cross-dressing: if that guy sees a guy wearing an ankle length skirt, does he find him gay? (rhetorical, think jesus, moses, peter...)

1/4/2012 11:45:21 AM


It's interesting that a couple of these ways to keep a boy from being gay involve something at least superficially homoerotic.

1/4/2012 1:23:31 PM



1/4/2012 1:30:07 PM

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