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I am the one who is arrogant? I really don't see how. I am sticking up for my beliefs but how is that arrogant? Defensive? Yes, because I will defend my beliefs till death.
"Until you have such evidence, you are wasting your time."
Well, I can't give you proof. I can pray for you to open your eyes but I can't prove anything to you unless you put forth the effort into believing and having child like faith. So as far as not having any proof I think God wants it that way. Maybe to see who His children are and aren't. We are meant to please God. God has His reasons for everything and we all don't know why but that's part of the mystery of it all, to please Him is to trust Him. But may I ask you as to why you don't have any faith in God, what lead you to become an atheist?
Also if I can't prove to you there is a God you for sure, cannot prove to me there isn't a God. :)
4/20/2012 3:47:53 PM
@ God is Great :)
Lets start with why you came here. You obviously came thinking that you knew more than us, and you were just itching to advertise that "fact." Your line about how we must be intimidated by the great mystery of god was particularly telling. The fact is that everyone on this site has heard your spiel a hundred times before, and even those of us who are people of faith detest such simplistic and patronizing decelerations.
So why did you come here? Did you really think your childish rhetoric was going to win some souls today? Perhaps you heard that this site was full of atheists and heretics and you thought you'd have an easy time making us look foolish. Or perhaps you expected some one to rebuke you, and you felt the need to feel the martyr complex that your lot carries around like some perverse medal.
As for defending your faith to the death, I hope it never comes to that.
4/20/2012 6:36:16 PM
@ God is Great :)
As far as god not wanting you to have proof, how very convenient for you. You suggest that we are meant to please god, but tell me, why does an omnipotent being need very fallible people to please it? You say it is a mystery, but that seems like a pretty basic and reasonable question. If it can't be answered, why bother thinking about god at all?
Of course I cannot prove to you that there is no god. That would be proving a negative, a logical impossibility. If some one asserts the existence of god, the burden of proof is on the one making the assertion. If you can't offer even a shred of evidence for god, why should anyone take your claims seriously?
4/20/2012 6:41:25 PM
@ God is Great :)
Finally, as to why I am an atheist, I am sure that you are expecting me to relate some awful trauma which turned me against god which you can council me through. I am sorry to disappoint you, but no such trauma exists in my past. The fact is, a thorough reading of the bible, combined with an ounce of critical thinking will lead anyone to conclude that it is myth, and that to base one's life on myth is a dangerous proposition.
4/20/2012 6:50:19 PM
As for defending your faith to the death, I hope it never comes to that.
Ditto. I would not wish that upon anyone.
4/20/2012 10:38:55 PM
Don't discourage @ God is Great :)
The original thread is well covered now, I don't mind the threads evolving as long as they don't come here to:
-Post blocks of Bible passages, almost always unrelated to topic
-Keep repeating the same argument, often copy and pasted
-Suggest their faith gives them more or special insight in not just the Bible but everything
-Come in before page five and muddy up the flow before the origional post has been covered
I like seeing the immediate back and forth otherwise. So, if your still here @ God is Great :) and can avoid those points,,, glad to hear from you.
4/21/2012 6:38:30 AM
Clint Eastwood could beat up Charleston Heston's zombie and Chuck Norris with only his left eyelid.
4/21/2012 6:43:18 AM
Jesus Died for atheist too! :)
@ Dr. Shrinker - I don't claim to know everything. You are the one who probably thinks I am an idiot for believing in something without proof. Well, then fine in your eyes I am an idiot. I don't want to make you look foolish at all or this site. But yes, I do care about people especially people's souls. If you read about Thomas in the Bible it talks about how the disciples were trying to convince Thomas that Jesus was alive and that he rose from the dead, but Thomas said that he wouldn't believe them unless he could touch Jesus' scars on his hands, feet and stomach. A week later the Thomas and the disciples were all in a room when Jesus appeared and he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed blessed are those who have NOT seen and yet have believed.”
Even though you can't physically see Jesus doesn't mean he isn't there. Soften your hearts and believe in Jesus and he will be with you.
I know we are going to believe what we want to believe. I have seen wonderful air tight evidence for evolution. And I have seen wonderful air tight evidence for creation. I experience God all the time so I choose to be a Christian. Some people choose to reject God so they spend time in places like this to try and validate their unbelief.
4/22/2012 9:19:38 AM
God is SO great! :)
@ Dr. Shrinker
As far as David J. Stewart is concerned, why do you make fun of just fundies? David J. Stewart is not the most evil person in the world. For example look at doctors, they make billions of dollars from people getting cancer, diseases etc. Right? Oh but they can treat you...there has to be a cure for cancer, (only the wealthy people with money get cured) but doctors don't want to cure you because then they loose money. If we have the technology for man to walk on the moon then how come we don't have a cure for cancer yet? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. So why can't you make fun of the evils in government, medical industry which is far, far, far worse then David J. Stewart?
4/22/2012 9:44:52 AM
God is Great!
@ Dr. Shrinker - Well, you are not disappointing me at all, I am glad you dealt with no such tragedies unlike me who dealt with many. As far as critical thinking is concerned, I do THINK. I am assuming you are very intelligent by just looking at your writing. Well, not that I agree with Einstein's belief, but the biggest genius in the world knew that God had to create the world. No, he didn't believe in Jesus Christ or a "personal God" for that matter but at least he knew a God created the world. "I can’t believe that God plays dice with the universe.” (Albert Einstein) Again I don't agree with Einstein that a God cannpt be personal because God is God. What makes a difference if it's personal or not. Jesus is my personal savior. So if Einstein knew there had to be a God, how come someone as smart as yourself don't think there is a God? Not just believing in the biblical God in which I believe with every ounce of my soul but you say and think that God is a just a mere myth. Just a stupid "Santa Clause story?" You have to know deep down in your heart that Atheism is nothing more than anger and bitterness against a Holy and Righteous God. What is stopping you from coming to Christ for salvation besides your critical thinking? I feel like that it's more then that. Were you hurt by someone who professed to be a "Christian," but they turned out to be a sheep in wolf's clothing? Just because someone claims to be a "Christian," surely does not mean that they are. (aka Hitler) Even the devil himself appears as a Christian. (2nd Corinthians 11:14) God is not Santa.
4/22/2012 10:07:44 AM
God is Great! <3
@ Dr. Shrinker -
You say it is dangerous to believe in something that is a "myth" I don't view the Bible as a myth...isn't all history accepted by faith? There is as much proof that Jesus Christ arose from the dead as there is that Alexander the Great existed. As a matter of fact, there is much more. Can you prove to me that Julius Caesar ever lived? No! You can show me some archeology and a history book, but you CANNOT absolutely prove that this man ever lived. You CANNOT prove to me that anyone in history ever lived—apart from something you read in a book, saw on TV, heard in a class, etc. Everything we believe concerning history is by faith! I CANNOT prove to you that Jesus ever existed. Who says George Washington ever existed? Can you prove that? No, you CANNOT. However, no one questions whether or not George Washington existed. Why? Because we blindly accept some of the things we hear and read. The only exception is the people who are still living today who can tell us about things that happened fifty to one hundred years ago. Beyond the last century, history is all by faith— We go by what we read and hear. Everything we believe concerning history is based on something we’ve seen or heard — everything!
4/22/2012 10:08:24 AM
We are meant to please God not ourself.
@ Dr. "Shrinker
"Why does an omnipotent being need very fallible people to please it?...If it can't be answered, why bother thinking about god at all?
Why wouldn't I want to please the God who DIED for my SINS? We were created to please GOD! The Bible tells us how to please God--by faith (Hebrews 11:6).
"Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."
4/22/2012 10:25:24 AM
@ God is Great :)
Your ranting is rapidly losing its coherency. I am guessing that you will not be able to keep this up much longer. Before you go though, I will try to address what I believe to be the most recent points you were making.
Whether you believe that Jesus, or angels, your ancestors or any other spiritual being is following you around is your concern. I maintain that the presence you allegedly feel is a product of your imagination. I expect that you go to a church, or read apologetics, or do something else to assure yourself that this is not the case, and that the presence you allegedly feel is genuine. By contrast, it is easy for me to maintain non-belief, especially when would-be recruiters like yourself acknowledge the lack of evidence to support belief.
And, while I am touched by your desire not to make me look foolish, I find I have little fear of that from some one who states that there is "wonderful, air-tight evidence for creation."
4/22/2012 11:15:19 PM
@ God is Great :)
As to your point about doctors...okay there wasn't really a point. In case you hadn't noticed, this isn't a site intended to make fun of doctors. It is a site dedicated to ridiculing the bullies, hypocrites and lunatics who use religion as a tool for beefing up their egos and/or abusing others. And your man Stewart is a prime example of such a person.
Again, I invite you to read the man's postings. He is constantly pointing fingers at others while implying (or in some cases expounding on) his own goodness. He is a modern day example of the people Jesus called "white washed sepulchers." However, as history has shown us again and again, all a scoundrel has to do is shout the name "Jesus" again and again and gullible people will leap to his defense. It worked for Jimmy Swaggert, it worked for Jim and Tammy Bakker, and as you have demonstrated it works for Stewart as well.
4/22/2012 11:22:40 PM
@ God is Great :)
Ah, the tired old argument of "well you take it on faith that so-and-so existed, why can't you take it on faith that Jesus existed?" Your reference to George Washington was particularly foolish. The net time you try to use this line, you might want to refer to Socrates instead.
There are portraits of Washington. There are autographed manuscripts written by Washington. The bills Washington signed into law are part of our legal history. The history of his life and deeds are consistently recorded (except by David Barton, who is not a real historian despite his notoriety). In sun, there is ample evidence to prove to within a reasonable margin of error that Washington existed.
Now lets look at Jesus: no portraits, no autographs and the records of his alleged deeds were not recorded until decades after his death. Furthermore, the four recognized records disagree on key points: his lineage, the nature of his message, his final words and even the day of his death. Even if Jesus did exists, how do you know if your idea of him matches reality in any way?
That last point is not to be glossed over casually. After all, prior to the conquest of orthodox Christianity there were many ideas about Jesus' nature: Arianism, Adoptionism. Docetism, Gnosticism, Marcionism, etc. Even today, the Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus was of one being with the father. Furthermore, over a billion Muslims believe that he was fully human. What makes your beliefs more right than theirs?
4/22/2012 11:36:07 PM
@ God is Great :)
As to our last post, you are missing the point. If your god is truly omnipotent, then it is, by definition, complete. It does not need you, or me, or anyone or anything. So why bother?
4/22/2012 11:48:24 PM
God is Great!
No, He doesn't need us but we need Him. We are meant to please Him, I don't know any other way of saying that. It's not about Him needing us...He loves us and that is why He created us.
Is there any actual scientific proof that God does not exist? No. The actual fact of existence is proof of God, for those who are able to see by faith. Without God, there is no existence. Even the "Big Bang Theory" falls short of explaining origins because the "Big Bang" is merely the first effect, and all of our science declares for there to be an effect, there must first be a cause. As the Laws of Nature were formed during the "effect", then the "cause" must be supernatural. The high degree of order observed everywhere in the universe, from the macro extremes of orderly structures of groups of galaxies to the micro extremes of sub-atomic particles prove that this supernatural first cause must be exceptionally intelligent, or that the observer must be exceptionally blind. Nearly every scientist agrees that the universe had a beginning. The most widely accepted explanation is the Big Bang theory or some variation of it. The question is: What made the bang? If you hear a noise you look for the cause for a little bang, then doesn't it also make sense that there would be a cause for the big bang? Stephen Hawking states, "Almost everyone now believes that the universe, and time itself, had a beginning at the Big Bang." The philosopher Kai Nelson says, "Suppose you suddenly hear a loud bang... and you ask me, 'What made that bang?' and I reply, 'Nothing, it just happened.' You would not accept that." I cannot show to you proof @DR. Shrinker. I am really sorry but God wants to see who'll believe without seeing. How can I show you proof by my faith? Its faith…how do you show evidence of rainbows to blind men? You can’t.
4/23/2012 8:36:48 AM
God is Great!
@ Dr. Shrinker
As my professor once said, “Every time I've come across written communication, whether it's a painting on a cave wall or a novel from Amazon.com or the words "I love you" inscribed in the sand on the beach, there has always been someone who did the writing. Even if I can't see the couple who wrote "I love you," you don't assume that the words randomly appeared by chance of the movement of the waves. Nothing happens randomly. Someone of intelligence made that written communication. And what is encoded on the DNA inside every cell of every living creature is purely and simply written information. I'm not saying this because I'm a writer; scientist will tell you this. We use a twenty-six-letter chemical alphabet, whose letters combine in various sequences to form all the instructions needed to guide the functioning of the cell. Each cell in the human body contains more information than in all thirty volumes of the Encyclopedia Britannica. For me, that's reason enough to believe this isn't the random product of unguided nature, but it's the unmistakable sign of an Intelligent Designer. In 2004, the atheist world was shocked when famed British atheist Antony Flew suddenly announced that he believed in the existence of God. For decades he had heralded the cause of atheism. It was the incredible complexity of DNA that opened his eyes: In a recent interview, Flew stated, "It now seems to me that the findings of more than fifty years of DNA research have provided the materials for a new and enormously powerful argument to design." –Professor McKenzie
4/23/2012 8:37:25 AM
@ God is Great :)
It appears we are never going to get anywhere with this. You will keep insisting "you have to believe to see the proof." I will keep asking "How do you know that your 'proof' isn't just your imagination seeing what it wants to see?" And you will keep ignoring that question.
As for your assertions of the big bang and the development of DNA I have an excellent and scientifically valid answer: insufficient data. The religious zealot will jump on this and shriek, "See, science does not have all the answers, therefore god!" That is because religious zealots have no understanding or appreciation for how science works.
In science there are always new questions to be answered, as well as old ideas to be refined with new data. Some of us find that exciting. Others find it intimidating, so they make up stories to explain reality. When those stories become more important than reality, suffering always results. I refer to the technology and ideas lost during the Dark Ages and the wars made possible by whipping up religious fervor as proof.
Your insistence that high degrees of organization require intelligence shows your lack of understanding. Crystals are about the most organized things in the world. Does that mean that there is a crystal making angel somewhere? Of course not, crystals form naturally: I've seen it happen!
Now, a guiding intelligence to the universe is possible, but how would you substantiate through examinations of nature what is, by definition, supernatural? You can't, you can only dream it up. And while you are at it, you can dream up a heaven for yourself, a hell for those who annoy you, and lots and lots of divine love. While you are wishing, be sure and ask for a pony too.
4/23/2012 9:42:08 AM
@ God is Great :)
"No, He doesn't need us but we need Him. We are meant to please Him, I don't know any other way of saying that. It's not about Him needing us...He loves us and that is why He created us."
If you do not see the blatant contradictions in what you wrote, there is almost certainly no point in continuing this line of discussion.
4/23/2012 9:44:11 AM
God is Great
You are right @Dr. Shrinker, but I really don't see how I contradict. I was just trying to treat others the way I want to be treated by telling others about Jesus. Not everything can be meausred such as thoughts for example but we all have thoughts. No? I never was taught about Jesus and when someone preached to me along with other miraculous things that happened...I started to read the Bible and I started to believe. God gave me faith. I have my own testimony on why I have the gift of faith. What makes Jesus different from all other religions is because they have to work for salvation. A true Christian doesn't have to work for salvation but does good works because they are saved and want to please God. Good works are done wihout reward. Of course, I can't tell you my experience because even if I did you wouldn't care due to the fact that it's subjective and I have no "proof." I just have my own testimony, that is between God and me.
I really do experience God everyday and He humbled me. I experienced a beautiful miracle. I don't care if this whole site deems me as a moron. I love Jesus. I love my God and that will never fade away.
As for you, in all respect:
"The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts."
The basis of my faith is the Bible so I can only provide quotes from the Bible, that's the only proof I have to offer. I know you don't want to here quotes from the Bible but again that's the basis of my faith. The Holy Spirit is suppose to help you and guide you with believing that the Bible is true and the word of God. The word of God is Jesus incarnate. However, I don't have the power to reveal Jesus Christ to you or provide you with a picture of Jesus.
I have respect to atheists, and will simply pray that God will open your eyes. Debating is is pointless especially if we can't come to see what the other see's as true and what the other see's as false.
I bow my head and hope you have a wonderful life. :)
4/23/2012 11:06:22 AM
@ God is Great -
Jesus is my Savior too and yeah you can't prove it. There is TRUTH in the Bible but NO logic. It's like looking at a painting. Us Christians who believe the Bible is God's word are considered "crazy" to most atheist's and they ask why do you believe in such "nonsense?" Most of them say the Bible makes no sense at all and you guys are right, it doesn't make any sense.
That's why I trust it.
4/25/2012 5:03:39 PM
@ God is Great:
Well, we might not agree and the discussion between you and Dr. Shrinker may even have been pointless, but it's good to see someone strongly religious come here and actually be polite. A nice counterpoint to all the hate spewed by those whom this site serves to quote.
I honestly wish you a great life too... and hope you come to see things our way eventually :P
5/3/2012 1:51:29 PM
Either the one in this thread posting the fundie bullshit (and not answers to questions to the satisfaction of those asking such, i.e. the commenters here in FSTDT) is a troll, in which case everything he says, does & thinks is invalid, or is Davey-boy himself under pseudonyms and/or sockpuppets (DJS can't reply to emails due to 'medical concerns', but can continue to post his unjustifiable bullshit on his site. Nope, no hypocrisy on his part, nosiree! [/sarcasm]), in which case everything he says*, thinks* and does - as per the worse than sin of child sex crimes - is less than invalid; convicted paedophiles don't have the right to exist, never mind think they have the right to an 'opinion', least of all be judgemental about anyone else.
Mr. Eastwood - the focus on the actual quote - as well as the rest of us on FSTDT (and the vast majority of the population on this planet) aren't paedophiles. Therefore we have every right in the world do be judgemental about anyone else - especially right-wing fundie Christians such as Davey-boy here - who profess to be 'Saved', yet continue to be anything less than perfect themselves, and who think they have the right to condemn the (legal) activities of those not exactly like them, beliefs-wise, despite what Matthew 7:1 says (and no, 'Judge righteously' doesn't give you the right to do so, as per Matthew 7:1; remember what it was Jesus said to Mary Magdalene, after saving her from the howling, stone-wielding & hypocritical mob?: 'Go and sin no more'
Yet, despite claiming to be 'Saved', and thus thinking he had the right to be judgemental, nay, condemn, others, Davey-boy goes and commits worse
Just consider yourself lucky, Mr. Stewart, that 1) I live thousands of miles away from you (the UK), and 2) the police here have a Zero Tolerance attitude to the carrying of knives in public (post-Dunblane & the banning of guns in the UK), to say nothing of stones.
...if 'tweren't not for your criminal record - for that
heinous, nay, worse
than-sin crime already destroying your reputation (With help from those who have already exposed your subhumanity already
), then what we're doing here in FSTDT is simply annihilating whatever subatomic particles of credibility you had left. >:D
And as we are - by definition - morally superior
to even God himself (I refer you to this link
), we have every right in the world to be judgemental about you morally inferior right-wing fundies.
*- And thus his 'religion' is invalid too. The basis of such - God - doesn't even condemn paedophilia in his 'Word'.
Therefore right-wing Fundamental
ist Christianity itself is invalid.
5/9/2012 8:40:24 AM
'it should be obvious to you just how hypocritical it is to focus on the sins and faults of others. We are the biggest sinners! Remember, anytime you point your finger at someone else, there's three fingers pointing back at you. Hypocrites are finger pointers. Please don't be a finger-pointer. We're no better than anyone else.'
So I guess you'll cease any & all 'opinions' on your so-called 'site' then, Davey-boy; indeed, you'll be shutting it down, because you can't reply to e-mails due to 'health concerns'. All that typing, otherwise, must be playing merry hell with your bad back eh? Or are you - as well as a convicted
(and thus proven
) paedophile - a sado-masochist; all that typing up your screeds inflicting upon you the same amount of pain that otherwise you'd miss in answering the charges/being called out on your own hypocrisy by your critics [/irony]. But I guess humiliation in having your own faults (thus you'd have no right to criticise others - Matthew 7:1 and all that jazz) and having to admit that you no longer have the right to say so, therefore having no choice but to shut down your site, leaving you with no way of pointing fingers at others like the busybody you are (and doesn't the Bible forbid busybodies...?), and thus justifying your sad little life, is the one thing you daren't face up to.
'We're no better than anyone else'? At least the vast majority of the rest of the world's population - including we Atheists - aren't paedophiles. Therefore we have every right in the world to consider ourselves more than infinitely superior, nay, point our collective fingers at you. J'accuse!
Moral: Hey, we all make mistakes. We're only human
after all. I'm the first to admit that. But at least the vast majority of males (especially we Atheists) possess as part of our psychological makeup, the ability to not so much as contemplate the notion of even thinking
of attacking an adult
female, no matter how she's dressed/deports herself. Less so an underage girl/boy.
Two words: Informed
I'd say 'Self Control: we Atheists has it. Do you
?' Davey-boy. But it's already a moot point. Because - by your own
admission - you clearly don't
. And you now have the criminal record (no doubt included in the FBI's database too, if Guam's Justice Department has the sense to send them a copy of such) and the nonexistent reputation - certainly no longer the moral high ground - to prove it.
...but hey, you're 'Saved' so that makes it all right, eh? [/hyper-sarcasm] 'OSAS', 'Grace by Faith
only' and all that jazz. That which is so favoured by you right-wing Fundamental
ist Christians, thinking it gives you carte blanche to be a douchebag cunt - and lower
, in the case of your own worse than-sins - yet, still think you are morally 'superior' to everyone else, making you 'believe' that you have the right to be judgemental about everyone else not exactly like you, beliefs-wise.
Well, you can think that...!
'Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.'
Seems that 'Pascal's Wager' is now nothing more than 'Heads I win, Tails you
lose', Davey-boy. And I'm the one with the coin of more than infinitely superior Atheistic morality.
7/6/2012 8:05:40 AM
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