puroresu #racist

puroresu #racist freerepublic.com

What Tim Wise calls white privilege is actually white accomplishment. Whites created a prosperous civilization, and then brought and/or allowed in people who have never created such a civilization. This automatically raised the standard of living of those people, far above any standard in their own lands. But when they fail to reach the same economic and power level as whites, nitwits like Wise blame it on white people.

37 comments

old comment by

"Allowed" in... at gunpoint. Immediately after shooing people out at gunpoint. A number of years after stealing the formula for gunpowder from the Orient, math from the Arabs, medicinal practices from both of them, material wealth from Africa...

Basically your claim to white man's civilizational superiority came from the same place as Ghengis Khan's: The business end of the nastiest weapons available and the spoils of war.

My view as a white guy? White, Black, British, Russian, Asian, Albino, Dwarfs, Male, Female, why does anyone give two shits in the first place? We've all got a long way to go if we're still bickering over bragging rights and whose daddy could beat up who.

old comment by rushin

>A number of years after stealing the formula for
>gunpowder from the Orient, math from the Arabs,
>medicinal practices from both of them, material
>wealth from Africa...

Stealing! It's not like Europeans sent out spies - "bring us the details of their wonderful positional notation, these Roman numerals realy suck!" (Nevermind that the Arabs themselves got it from the Hindus, anyway.) And even if they did steal stuff, to make use of it would require smarts of one's own. The Chinese were toying around with gunpowder for centuries but it didn't dawn on them to put it in a tube and have it propel projectiles with deadly speed. Russians stole the atomic bomb, but it still took Kurchatov's genius and having an existing R&D infrastructure in place to recreate it.

old comment by rushin

The b***shit Americans are told! If you're so bent on denigrating the white man, why not diss Europeans for something in which they really messed up? Like the treacherous attack by the (Catholic) West on the (then) comparatively more sophisticated and wealthy (but Orthodox) East Rome during the so called 4th Crusade, and the pillaging of Constantinople that it never quite recovered from (and that ultimately resulted in Constantinople falling prey to the Ottomans and the establishment of Muslim rule over Balkans as well as the Turks' foray into western Europe and the Siege of Vienna in 1683.) Which also continues to have an effect in the East-West divide in today's Europe (though there are of course other factors at work as well. West Europe's disunity, the antagonism between ecclesial and worldly power (or, by contrast, the traditional alignment of the Orthodox church with it), the Protestant work ethic etc, accelerated material and societal progress in the west or stifled it in the east, respectively.)

old comment by Vox

@rushing - "and the pillaging of Constantinople that it never quite recovered from (and that ultimately resulted in Constantinople falling prey to the Ottomans and the establishment of Muslim rule over Balkans as well as the Turks' foray into western Europe and the Siege of Vienna in 1683.)"

How many nonwwhite Americans do you see telling poorer Europeans that they should be thankful to the Turks and Arabs for building a prosperous civilization for them in late medieval times or early modern times? How many nonwhite Americans do you see asking Albanians and poor European countries why can't they just pull themselves up by their own bootstrap? You also usually don't see nonwhite Americans bragging about how their ancestors provided a decent living for European immigrants to the US who were often unemployed while blacks and other minorities continued building the economy on sharecropping and industrial labor like building railroads.

Sadly it's a fact that much of the West's so-called progress (I say "so-called" because some of the stuff Eurocentrists and white nationalist-types consider "progress" is either negative or whether or not it's a positive depends on personal opinion) is a product or by-product of imperialism and other people's pain. That's just a fact. The fact that you don't like hearing this brought up and it may cause people like you some discomfort doesn't make it "white guilt". You don't have to feel bad about it, but don't pretend it didn't happen just because it may make you or some people squirm or upset.

old comment by rushin

>Vox:
>How many nonwwhite Americans do you see telling
>poorer Europeans that they should be thankful to
>the Turks and Arabs for building a prosperous
>civilization for them in late medieval times or
>early modern times?

I fully agree that "Blacks should be grateful for slavery" is a stupid and repulsive line of argument and I wasn't arguing about it.

Still I think that, first, not everything can be explained away with slavery and second, that people who oppose discrimination (which is laudable) may make themselves instrumental in things that are harmful, in the ling run, to Western culture, in the broadest sense of the term (and besides that, simply not true. Relativize all you wnat, but medicine and TCM are not the same as far as healing goes. Science and Islam are not the same as far as inquiry into the workings of the world go. Circumcision and FGM are not the same as far as initiation rites go. Illiterate Somali herdsmen aren't going to become neurosurgeons. Muslim immigrants of the uptight kind aren't going to stop performing arranged marriages and commit honour killings once they set foot in Europe, etc.)

That's what I wanted to say.

old comment by Brendan Rizzo

@ rushin:

Calm the fuck down. You do not seem to be anywhere near as racist as the OP, so I will try to have a decent conversation with you.

For the things in your first post, no one really thinks that Western Europeans "stole" technological advances from other countries. Science is an international thing, so no one group of people "owns" any advance. I think that anonymous poster was turning the classic white supremacist claim that East Asians somehow "stole" the technological advances of white people on its head. (Although I agree with you that other peoples, Asians especially, can get away with inconceivable arrogance and ethnocentrism that a European would be rightly pilloried for. What, exactly, have they done lately?)

For your second post, you are probably just unaware that the sack of Constantinople is one of the things that antitheists will cite when claiming that religion is a bad thing which has only ever regressed society rather than progressing it. You would not believe how much most rationalists absolutely despise the people of the past. Those historical figures ought to consider themselves lucky that they are from a completely different time period, or else they would wind up tried for war crimes and be punished to the fullest extent of international law.

As for your third post, I agree about one thing. Crocodile tears. It's not just Europe doing it. The West in general (coincidentally, all Western countries are mostly white) really does not give a shit about what happens anywhere else in the world. Sure, they claim to be completely outraged at the crimes against humanity which happen constantly in undeveloped countries, but if they really cared, they'd be overthrowing those tyrants, liberating the people, and helping those countries pull themselves up out of misery. This is clearly not happening. I honestly think that the only reason that the Allies dealt sanely with the defeated Axis after the Second World War is because those who were oppressed by the fascists were either white, or were Japanese (who, as they pretty much aped European society after the 1870s, were considered honorary white people). Is there a reason why the so-called "enlightened" citizens of Europe do not care about all the wars and genocides that are happening? Europeans on this board, please tell me.

old comment by Vox

@Brendan Rizzo - Thank you for saying most of what I wanted to say to rushin. :)

I've always argued that if the Western governments truly cared about the impact their actions have on Africa and the developing world they would stop doing it. There is a clear history of the US and other Western powers funding or militarily aiding coups just about every time citizens in a developing country elect a leader who enacts policies that will actually help the poor native majority. The coup almost always pushes to power a corrupt, right-wing pro-Western puppet dictator who screws over the native population to help Western companies set up shop in the country to use cheap labor. The leaders are fine with it because they get a payoff from the Western companies they help.

One of the biggest examples of this would be the ousting of Patrice Lumumba with the help of the CIA and the installment of pro-Western dictator Mobutu Sese-Seko in his place. If Western elites were so eaten up with "white guilt" they wouldn't keep doing crap like that or going out of their way to ensure that no nonwhite country is allowed to acquire or develop nuclear weapons.

old comment by NoXion

@ Brendan Rizzo:

The "bootstraps" argument is a load of crap when applied on an individual basis because individuals are so much more limited in their options in comparison to what amounts to signficant chunks of the world (sub-Saharan Africa and other places). I'm sure that such places would find themselves much better able to deal with their problems if they were allowed to work together without the interference of international busy-bodies like the IMF, and without the threat of being invaded or bombed by the US along with whoever else they manage to rope in (UK citizens turned out in significant numbers against the idea of invading Iraq, but the government ignored that kind of thing and instead cooked up a fake dossier of so-called "evidence" to support their unjustified invasion).

@ Leliel

Considering the social prevalence and political influence of fundamentalist Christianity in the United States, shouldn't the US be forcibly divested of it's nuclear capability, by the same reasoning?

puroresu #racist freerepublic.com

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