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Quote# 86156

What is staggering about the secularists is their arrogance and the shortness of their memories. The materialist utopianism of the Communists and Nazis is to blame for all the worst atrocities of the past century. Dawkins may appear to make sense, but it is incredible that we should be ready to pay serious attention to a prophet whose message is the same as those whose schemes led straight to the hells of the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Mao's Cultural Revolution and the Khmer Rouge.

Peter Popham, The Independent 53 Comments [2/23/2012 4:32:21 AM]
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\m/>_<\m/

thanks for the buzzwords. know how to use them next time. a materialist utopia is the united states with its aggressive capitalist policy, communism is its opposite. nazis were halfway to both.

dawkins ain't a prophet, for that we'd need to have a faith he could lead. and ffs, quit lumping communism and nazism in the same bag!

that one hit hard before breakfast...

2/23/2012 5:07:42 AM

Robespierre

Sure, it can't be the ruthless one-party-state trying to skip centuries of development on a whim, or the crazy genocidal racism, it has to be secularism.

2/23/2012 5:22:50 AM

SpukiKitty

Ah another statement from the "Let's lump totally opposing things we don't like in one glob & treat them as same" school of moronic thought.

2/23/2012 5:23:02 AM

Bollox

As opposed to what, Popham? The spotless record of religionist leaders' policies, which as we all know have invariably led to paradise on Earth?

Boy, that survey sponsored by Dawkins' foundation sure has riled them, hasn't it?
(The poll showed that many, if not most people identifying with a faith don't actually believe any of the core tenets of said faith. I think it hit a very sore spot).

2/23/2012 5:32:48 AM

Swede

What is staggering is your stupidity.

Communism isn't materialistic, it's quite the opposite.
Nazis were doing God's work, and according to their belt buckles had God on their side. They sent communists to the gas-chambers, that's how much they liked each other.

My four-year-old niece makes more sense than you do, and she hardly speaks.

Ya know, the message of Communism is VERY similar to the message of Jesus. You should read that book about him sometimes. What's it called again? Oh yes; The Bible.

2/23/2012 5:47:08 AM

Bollox

Be fair, Swede, Jesus never really said much about the necessity of overthrowing the landlord class via a proletarian revolution. That was more the Judaean People's Front.

2/23/2012 5:52:02 AM

cdcdrr

Be fair, Swede, Jesus never really said much about the necessity of overthrowing the landlord class via a proletarian revolution. That was more the Judaean People's Front.

"Pfah, wankers! We're the People's Front of Judea!"


2/23/2012 6:09:47 AM

Swede

All right, he didn't say much about that part, granted.
But he did say quite a bit about selling your things and giving the money to the poor, about sharing, about "that which you do to the least of my people, you do unto me", something about a camel and a needle.

2/23/2012 6:27:27 AM

Fpqxz

Not this shit again...

2/23/2012 6:30:19 AM

Mister Spak

Stslin was a seminary student. Hitler outlawed abortion, homosexuality and liberalism. Mao was senile like Ronald Reagan. The Khmer Rouge killed large numbers imagining they were part of an enemy group like George Bush did.

The staggering arrogance and short memories of free market materialist fundieists are leading America straight to Nazi Communist hell.

2/23/2012 6:33:44 AM

dionysus

Materialist utopia? That sounds more like the dreams of the US Republican Party: no corporate taxes, no regulation, screw the environment, etc. If I was a materialist and didn't care much about ethics, the Republican platform would be an absolute dream to me! Dawkins, by contrast, isn't much of a materialist and, in fact, is quite content to enjoy the beauty of nature.

2/23/2012 6:35:28 AM



Secularism isn't enforced atheism.

And while you're talking of atrocious behaviour, it wasn't secularism that expelled the Jews in the 13th century, or that near outlawed Catholicism and persecuted its followers. Secularism didn't execute witches. Or atheists for that matter. Cromwell's Puritan rule wasn't very popular with anyone who wasn't a Puritan. The UK (or England pre-UK) has had a long and illustrious history of religion-based persecution. Secularism is the best way to ensure one group never gets favour above the rest in law and reduces the government's ability to marginalise people based on faith. You fucking godbotherer idiots are being sucked into this BS and you don't even realise secularism is the best thing for everyone in a mixed society.

2/23/2012 6:36:40 AM

aaa

Your grasp of history is both narrow and inadequate. Do you even know what the word "Materialist" means? Please, read a dictionary and stop acting like a Murdoch journalist.

2/23/2012 6:42:49 AM



"Got mit uns."

You lose, Peter.

2/23/2012 7:09:52 AM



Peter Popham picked a pack of pointless people.

2/23/2012 7:11:41 AM

Brendan Rizzo

Clearly you haven't actually listened to him, because if you noticed, Dawkins and others like him explicitly condemn the actions of the communists and fascists alike.

2/23/2012 7:18:02 AM

Doubting Thomas

OK, we get it. All you Christians think that atheism = Nazism = Communism. Now would it hurt you to pick up a fucking history book?

2/23/2012 7:19:14 AM

Brendan Rizzo

And just for fun, I'm gonna fix his quote:

"What is staggering about the religious is their arrogance and the shortness of their memories. The theocratic utopianism of the Christians and the Muslims is to blame for all the worst atrocities of the Christian Era. Popham may appear to make sense, but it is incredible that we should be ready to pay serious attention to a prophet whose message is the same as those whose schemes led, among other things, straight to the hells of the Inquisition, the Thirty Years War, the Taiping Rebellion and the European witch-hunts."

Yeah, I really like doing this.

2/23/2012 7:23:05 AM

Sevagram

Dawkins may appear to make sense, but it is incredible that we should be ready to pay serious attention to a prophet whose message is the same as those whose schemes led straight to the hells of the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Mao's Cultural Revolution and the Khmer Rouge."


Except of course that Dawkins isn't preaching anything of sort. Which you'd know if you weren't retarded.

2/23/2012 7:48:16 AM

Papabear

"What is staggering about the secularists is their arrogance and the shortness of their memories."

What is staggering about the Fundies is their arrogance and lack of understanding of science and history.

"The materialist utopianism of the Communists and Nazis is to blame for all the worst atrocities of the past century."

Even if that was true, secularism is only obliquely related to Communism and not related to theNazis at all.

"Dawkins may appear to make sense, but it is incredible that we should be ready to pay serious attention to a prophet whose message is the same as those whose schemes led straight to the hells of the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Mao's Cultural Revolution and the Khmer Rouge."

Just because your world view includes delusions of prophets, that doesn't entitle you to burden our world view with such nonsense. Dawkins is a bright guy with good ideas but he is not (nor is anyone else) a prophet.

Not sharing your religious delusions doesn't mean we are on our way to copying the Soviets or Nazis. Perhaps you religious beliefs mean you are destined to emulate the crusaders or Cortez.



2/23/2012 8:03:41 AM

Eppur si muove

To be fair, Stalin was not a priest or a seminarists. He was taught by Orthodox priests only because it was 19th century Russia and there were no schools. To the best of anybody's knowledge, he was not religious and was a convinced communist, and his personality cult, while an insult to reason and human dignity, was not a religion in any meaningful way.

There's no need to pretend that atheist criminals aren't atheists. Whether atheists commit crimes and whether they do it in the name of atheistm is irrelevant; guilt by association is a logical fallacy.

2/23/2012 8:03:48 AM

Anon-e-moose

"What is staggering about the secularists is their arrogance and the shortness of their memories. The materialist utopianism of the Communists and Nazis is to blame for all the worst atrocities of the past century."

What is staggering about the fundies is their ignorance and the absence of their memories:



Hitler was a Christian He was also a right-winger.

Stalin, Mao: Cult of Personality.

Cult of Personality = religion

We secularists by definition don't worship or even have deities to worship in the first place. And that's the difference.

"Nazis is to blame for all the worst atrocities of the past century"

Like I say, Hitler was a Christian:

'The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak ... homophobic, racist, ... capriciously malevolent bully.'

-Richard Dawkins

Thus a dictator. Ergo, God = Hitler. Q.E. and D., bitch.

"Dawkins may appear to make sense"

'Appear'? Apart from his mere existence proving he is superior to God, the mere fact he has done none of the petty, unjust, homophobic, racist & capriciously malevolent things as described in the Old Testament - as condoned, ordered, or committed personally by God - proves that he, and all we Atheists are more than infinitely superior to your so-called 'God'; and if anything he should be bowing down and worshipping us.

2/23/2012 8:15:11 AM

Bollox

@ Eppur si muove:

Re Stalin, his mother did in fact intend him for the priesthood, and his entry to the Tiflis Seminary was sponsored by his local cleric. It is true, however, that the young J V Dzugashvili never bought into this, and it is also true that the seminary was a popular alternative for those unable to afford Tiflis University.

As for the cult of personality not resembling a religion ... how not? It had holy writ, enforced dogma, ritual observances and an unreasoning worship of a father figure, to whom superhuman attributes were given. If we look at the extension of that cult as it has been practiced in North Korea, how can one say what the difference is between Juche (and its long dead Eternal President) and any other religion?

2/23/2012 8:22:19 AM

Table Rock

Oh, it's the "I'm going to lump together everything I don't like with unrelated, evil things so you think they are evil too" argument

2/23/2012 8:25:40 AM

Mayhem

Peter's been Poppin' something, but it ain't his Ritalin.

2/23/2012 8:38:35 AM
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