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Quote# 86156

What is staggering about the secularists is their arrogance and the shortness of their memories. The materialist utopianism of the Communists and Nazis is to blame for all the worst atrocities of the past century. Dawkins may appear to make sense, but it is incredible that we should be ready to pay serious attention to a prophet whose message is the same as those whose schemes led straight to the hells of the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Mao's Cultural Revolution and the Khmer Rouge.

Peter Popham, The Independent 53 Comments [2/23/2012 4:32:21 AM]
Fundie Index: 68
WTF?! || meh
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Philbert McAdamia

@Swede
My four-year-old niece makes more sense than you do, and she hardly speaks.

Well, duh. If Pete would shut his face he'd make more sense than he does.

2/23/2012 9:16:54 AM



Yeah, fundamentalist, fascist, totalitarian government systems are exactly what secularists, as opposed to, say, right wing Christians want.
Oh wait, that's all arse about face, isn't it.

More Dawkins is as bad as Hitler nonsense from the idiot brigade.

What the bloody hell happened to broadsheet journalism while my back was turned?

2/23/2012 10:04:32 AM

Berny

Another fucking moron who can't tell the difference between "social darwinism" and the theory of evolution.

2/23/2012 10:08:30 AM

whoanelly

Please do your homework on what all those conflicting ideologies actually mean before you start ranting. Thanks.

2/23/2012 10:11:36 AM

D Laurier

The nazis never offered any materialist utopia. Their whole platform was the return of devinely sanctioned racial purity as Jesus intended, and the redemption of the lands Jesus gave to his chosen race.

2/23/2012 11:07:45 AM

Atheissimo

'Materialist utopianism'

Of Communists? Are you sure you even know what Communism is? You know that those are the guys who thought that everybody should co-own everything right? You know, the polar opposite of materialism?

'but it is incredible that we should be ready to pay serious attention to a prophet whose message is the same as those whose schemes led straight to the hells of the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Mao's Cultural Revolution and the Khmer Rouge'

Firstly, how is it that the same message can lead to such radically different outcomes? To the point that the Nazis and Communists both set up camps to exterminate the other?

'Nazi Germany'

And you know who the Nazis were, right? I mean, since you seemed to have no idea who the Communists were, you might be a bit sketchy. Those were the guys who thought they were doing God's will by exterminating the Jews who killed Jesus. Right? Those are the ones you think were secularists?

2/23/2012 12:27:26 PM

Fundies Make Me Sick

Darwin wasn't a prophet and evolution isn't responsible for the Holocaust or the atrocities committed by the Soviet Union. You fail.

2/23/2012 12:45:15 PM

farpadokly

Comrades, let us use every opportunity we have to keep pointing out the thoroughly religious and irrational nature of these regimes, and of totalitarianism itself.
Nazi Germany in particular, cannot be called secularist or materialist. Its central myth was the nationalist myth of blood and soil.
The Khmer Rouge was political ideology which also had a nationalist and racist element. Tribalism and factionalism exacerbated by politics.
The roots of massacre and genocide are always the same: A hierarchical chain of command and a dehumanisation of the enemy. Atheism is not a factor.
Massacres also happened throughout the Christian centuries, all over Europe and in other places too. That they happened on a lesser scale is due rather to lack of development in killing technology rather than the restraining influence of religion. The command structure was there, the factionalism was there, the dehumanisation was there, and the massacres happened.
Re: Materialism: He means philosophical materialism as opposed to philosophical idealism, not materialism as in consumerism, shopping malls, etc. It is quite correct to say that Marxism, for instance, is a materialist philosophy.

2/23/2012 12:46:12 PM

Old Viking

Peter would be more persuasive if he spewed facts instead of spittle.

2/23/2012 12:47:52 PM

checkmate

the worst atrocities

Mass slaughtering of woman, children, captives, etc. during the Crusades.

The Spanish Inquisition.

The Thirty Years War, with millions of dead.

The near extinction of the Maya, Inca, etc.

Jonestown, Waco, ...

That's just off the top of my head. It's a long, long, long list of horrific atrocities, with murder, torture, rape, genocide, etc. - all of it in Jesus' name.

What is staggering about the christians is their arrogance and the shortness of their memories.

2/23/2012 12:57:31 PM



The Nazis believed they were doing god's work.

2/23/2012 1:11:34 PM

lisamariefan

"The materialist utopianism of the Communists and Nazis is to blame for all the worst atrocities of the past century."

Lol! Capitalism is every bit as materialistic, if not more so!

2/23/2012 1:31:47 PM

tranz2deep

@SpukiKitty:

*bopping her lightly on the back of the head* That's school of NON-thought!

2/23/2012 2:04:13 PM

Quote Improved Edition

I've been staggering about a lot lately, largely because of the secularists that made alcohol legal again. Call it arrogance, but I always laugh when I find out about the shortness of their memories. You might think it's materialist, but I was never one for utopianism. Actually my drinking pals are largely Communists and Nazis, and you can blame that on one of the worst atrocities I've ever known. In the past century alone, the fact that we hung Dawkins may appear to be incredible, but we ought to pay serious attention to my new prophet schemes. Let's set it straight. The old hells of the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Mao's Cultural Revolution and the Khmer Rouge, have nothing on us.

2/23/2012 2:24:39 PM

breakerslion

Do you like sugar, Peter? Hitler liked sugar. That makes you a Nazi. It was all about the sugar.

2/23/2012 3:00:28 PM

Fawful has seen God has a vagina on top of his penis

"The message is the same as those whose schemes led straight to the hells of the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Mao's Cultural Revolution and the Khmer Rouge."

Sorry to burst your bubble, but all of those guys were actually conservatives. They were only socialists in name.

2/23/2012 3:26:35 PM

JSS

And religion has brought upon the tyranny of the Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, and the theocratic Muslim terrorist regimes seen today.

2/23/2012 3:50:31 PM

dynaboyj

Nazism and communism are complete opposites. DOES NO ONE GET THIS?

2/23/2012 3:54:49 PM

myheadhurts

Fine. I propose skeptical realism.

2/24/2012 12:53:04 AM

Lpopman

WTF are all the British press suddenly turning to the right. It shocked me when The GrauniadGuardian started veering to the right, but now The Independent.

I'm seriously worried about the state of my country...

2/24/2012 2:38:37 AM



@Lpopman

Nah, the Guardian is still pretty much its same old liberal self. Although the Warsi quote on here was attributed to the Guardian, it actually was written for and appeared in The Telegraph. Which is really right wing these days. The comments there can actually be a goldmine of FSTDTery sometimes. It's like the Daily Mail with longer words.

2/24/2012 4:40:53 AM

Tolpuddle Martyr

Yeah, that Dawkins scientist guy is totally the same as a two height-challenged dictators who liked liquidating their enemies.

Lets ignore the fact that one hated atheists and the other hated academics, peas in a pod I tells ya.

2/24/2012 11:48:08 PM

solomongrundy

@Lpopman wrote:

'The Telegraph...It's like the Daily Mail with longer words.'

I like to think of the The Telegraph/Daily Mail relationship as being similar to The Dandy/The Beano's.

Though it is seriously worrying that The Independent considers Popham's rambling drivel worthy of column space.

2/25/2012 12:34:06 AM

Wehpudicabok

Communism is "materialistic" in the technical philosophical sense, meaning believing that only matter exists (in that most Communists are atheists, including the ones who have done the most damage). But of course people like Popham are incapable of distinguishing between meanings of words; equivocation is a natural part of their thought processes. The common meaning of "materalism" - putting wealth and material goods above meaningful life experiences - has nothing to do with this discussion and is only conflated so as to draw upon the reader's disgust with this idea. What is staggering here is the implied insult to the audience, that they would be persuaded by this debasement of the English language.

2/25/2012 3:19:52 AM



How to convey in the same place people who have nothing in common between themselves.

2/25/2012 6:35:52 AM
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