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5 minuts on google and I found out that the first amendment, was adopted on 15th december 1791.
I am not even an american and I now know this. I dnt even know who the hell McCollum is, but I still knew the first amendment was implemented long before 1947. What is wrong with these people are they completely fact immune?
3/6/2012 4:44:59 AM
The first "fact" is in the law as of the first amendment, has origins going back even further, and was also underscored in Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptist Church. Thus all downstream "facts" fail on this basis.
And if a klansman did author the McCallum decision, so what? (I haven't verified this anyway, but even if true, this is be definition an ad hominem attack...)
Edit: Hugo Black, the author of the decision actually did join the Klan, hoping it would help his career...
3/6/2012 4:50:32 AM
For those who don't know the OP is talking about McCollum v. United States, a Supreme Court decision. The opinion was written by Hugo Black, a justice from Alabama who is probably one of the more liberal justices in the history of the court (although he was a textualist).
3/6/2012 5:12:56 AM
FACT - The separation of church and state originated in the 1st amendment, which originated in Virginias religious freedom law, which was written by Jefferson. Everything else you wrote that follows is FAIL.
3/6/2012 5:54:43 AM
So even assuming that you're right about everything else (you're not), you're saying that just happening to agree on a certain non-race-related point with a Klansman is wrong in all circumstances just because he's a Klansman?
So, if a Klansman decides he doesn't like litter, I'm not allowed to hate litter, because it would put me "in complete and utter agreement with a Klansman"?
Just how stupid are you?
3/6/2012 6:10:31 AM
Vote Republican, and this will pass for Constitutional law.
3/6/2012 6:28:29 AM
CapsLocking the word 'fact' doesn't lend credence in your idiotic statements.
3/6/2012 6:35:35 AM
FACT - Separation of church and state is a doctrine created legally in the USA by the McCollum opinion. That was in 1947-8.
FACT- Perphides is completely ignorant of Thomas Jefferson.
FACT - The McCollum opinion is the touchstone of the left's legal case for eradicating God from the public arena
Your god must be extraordinarily weak if a few legal cases can take him out of the public arena. You'd think a god of any kind of power could show up in public whenever it damn well pleased.
FACT - Anyone who supports McCollum and its descendant doctrines is in complete and utter agreement with a Klansman
Hitler ate sugar, therefore eating sugar makes you Hitler!
I am sure you'll make your own decisions Cindy, but as for me, I want nothing to do with Klan-approved legal theory.
Klansmen also believe in freedom of speech and freedom of assembly. I guess we should be against those, too!
3/6/2012 6:47:05 AM
Fact...You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
3/6/2012 6:49:07 AM
One: I never will understand why people who raise their kids in the church and perform the Christian rituals at home think the school needs to also promote it.
Two: It wouldn't surprize me that the Klan would object to it because they were then and are now at odds with the "all men are equal regardless of race or creed" that most churchs promote.
The KKK is a CHRISTIAN organization, as are many racist malitias and Tea-Party members. These people have a primitive interpretation of the Bible that would make the Inquisitors proud.
3/6/2012 7:04:27 AM
FACT - Putting "fact" in all caps in front of your claims does not make them actual facts.
But here's an actual fact: The separation of church and state comes from the First Amendment's Establishment & Free Exercise Clause and from writings from Thomas Jefferson, who was very clear that the founding fathers (you know, the guys you conservitards worship so much) intended to have a wall of separation between church and state.
FACT - KKK members and neo-nazis breathe air.
FACT - Anyone else who breathes air is doing the same thing that KKK members and neo-nazis are doing.
The reason they want forced prayer and religion taught in school isn't because they want their own children indoctrinated even more than they already are, but they want all the atheist, Muslim, and Jewish kids to be forced to accept Christianity. It's all about power over others, and ever since the Supreme Court ruled that school-led prayer is unconstitutional, they've been decrying this loss of some of their power.
3/6/2012 7:14:38 AM
They also want to keep their children from ever coming into contact with beliefs that are different from what they're being taught at home and in their church. That's why they don't want schools to teach evolution. They want America to be a "total institution," to borrow a term from sociology, that mirrors their own values and beliefs.
3/6/2012 7:47:50 AM
FACT =/= Perphides' personal opinion
Klansmen eat food, Perphides eats food. Ergo, s/he's in complete and utter agreement with a Klansman.
3/6/2012 8:19:59 AM
Yes, the KKK wants a separation of church and state. That's why they burn crosses on people's lawns.
3/6/2012 8:45:31 AM
"FACT - Separation of church and state is a doctrine created legally in the USA by the McCollum opinion. That was in 1947-8.
FACT - The opinion was written by a Klansman"
O RLY...? (emphasis added):
'"Separation of church and state" (sometimes "wall of separation between church and state") is a phrase used by Thomas Jefferson (in his 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptists) and others expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. The phrase has since been repeatedly cited by the Supreme Court of the United States.
The First Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion
, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...."
"FACT - The McCollum opinion is the touchstone of the left's legal case for eradicating God from the public arena"
No, it was Thomas Jefferson, one of your country's Founding Fathers, who drew up what would become the basis of your country and it's rule of law (Remember why
people left my country, the UK, and went to the New World...? Because of the UK having a state religion, the Church of England, and their opposition to such
). You FAIL II.
"FACT - Anyone who supports McCollum and its descendant doctrines is in complete and utter agreement with a Klansman"
Even the most liberal Democrat-voting person in your country would say that anyone who goes against what messrs. Jefferson et al laid down in the Constitution is in complete and utter agreement with Nazi Dominionist fundies, and therefore is an UnAmerican traitor.
You FAIL III, and have struck out, Derpides.
It really says so much about a country, when more people outside it know more about it's own Consatitution than a sizeable proportion of that country's own citizens.
To paraphrase the classic quote from the film "A Few Good Men": 'Facts? You can't handle the facts!
"FACT =/= Perphides' personal opinion"
And here's what The Dude would say to Derpides:
3/6/2012 8:58:36 AM
Fact, Separation of church and state was first introduced by Thomas Jefferson.
Fact, this was written by a Founding Father.
Fact, Thomas Jefferson knew the damage a theocratic government could inflict on the populace.
Fact, anyone who agrees with this in agreement with a founding father.
3/6/2012 9:55:01 AM
One thing is clear, "facts" in the fundie universe are nothing like what they are in the real universe.
3/6/2012 10:02:50 AM
-Whether true or not (probably not), it doen't matter because its still a great idea.
-Doesn't matter if it was written by Hitler, its still a great idea. Try attacking that rather than its supposed author.
-Gonna leave number 3 there, because I don't know anything about it. Much like Perphides, I suspect.
-"Agree with someone about one thing, and you agree with them on ALL OTHER THINGS!" So, if you believe in gravity you also believe in alchemy; if you believe that forensics are a good way of catching criminals, you also believe in faries. Honestly, this is some considerable way beyond retarded.
3/6/2012 10:15:10 AM
So much wrong all in one place.
3/6/2012 10:32:03 AM
Reading the Wikipedia article on Hugo Black, it mentions his involvement with the Klan and says it was mostly in order to get votes.
In any case, this is an association fallacy. Someone can be wrong about some things and right about others.
3/6/2012 10:46:28 AM
Perphides -- Pffftt! - you misspelled perfidious.
Also - there was a black in the KKK?
*snicker* Oh, I crack myself up.
re: Blazing Saddles - "Where ya keepin' the white women?"
3/6/2012 11:06:13 AM
Anyone who supports McCollum and its descendant doctrines is in complete and utter agreement with a Klansman
Darn right! And anyone who uses a transistor is in complete agreement with a racist, and anyone who studies algebra is in complete agreement with Mohammad and anyone who looks at a painting by Caravaggio is in complete agreement with a murderer and anyone who is Jewish is in complete agreement with Bernie Madoff and anyone who is German is in complete agreement with Hitler.
3/6/2012 11:20:42 AM
eradicating God from the public arena
Rumor has it that God is so distraught by this that he cries himself to sleep every night. He's been heard speaking to himself saying "nobody likes me, nobody likes me".
Is that true?
Btw, I looked at the thread and I saw it's on "SLUniverse", apparently a part of Second Life.
Isn't participating in Second Life basically tantamount to admitting that one doesn't have a first life?
3/6/2012 1:21:27 PM
How come the first amendment was adopted AFTER the Prohibition (18th/21st) wouldn't you think that sort of thing is done chronologically?!
3/6/2012 1:59:32 PM
OK... so I'll re-state a few FACTS, Perphides:
FACT - Separation of church and state is a doctrine created legally in the USA by the First Amendment of the Constitution. That was in 1791.
FACT - Guilt by association is a fallacy.
FACT - The separation of church and state means that, though individual citizens can believe whatever they want, the government CANNOT favor one religion over any other.
FACT - The fact that two people have a single belief in common does not mean that they agree on anything else.
I am sure you'll make your own decisions Perphides, but as for me, I want nothing to do with Dominionist-approved legal theory.
Admittedly, with that username (it sounds an awful lot like "perfidy") this might be a Poe, but one can never be too sure these days.
3/6/2012 2:39:24 PM
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