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Quote# 86723

In all my exchanges with unbelievers, I'm always amazed at how much they act like they care for logic and reason. Anyway, Instead of writing a bunch words that might put you to sleep I will make this a little more entertaining:

A: You don't understand reason.

C: How do you know?

A: Because you don't understand Logic

C: How do you know?

A: Because you don't understand reason.

C: Ok, what's reason?

A: It's our only means of knowledge.

C: How about Logic?

A: Logic is our guiding principle.

C: Ok, so all knowledge is based on logic and reason?

A: Yes

C: How about that statement?

A: What do you mean?

C: Is the statement "All knowledge is based on logic and reason" based on logic and reason?

A: Yes.

C: Ok, well now your begging the question.

A: How?

C: Because you are relying on logic and reason to prove logic and reason.

A: Silence

C: Anyway, how do you know that you reason correctly?

A: I compare my reasons to the others.

C: How do you know they reason correctly?

A: Silence

C: How do you define Logic?

A: Logic is the guiding principle of the mind.


C: Is everybody Logical?

A: No

C: But you just said logic guides our minds?

A: Well, some people choose not to be lead by logic.

C: Why?

A: I don't know.

C: How do you know your logical?

A: Silence


End.

Hezekiah Ahaz , Pressing For Truth 53 Comments [3/31/2012 7:59:42 AM]
Fundie Index: 51
WTF?! || meh
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TheLstCenturion

Silence = Dumfounded disbelief at the stupidity of those questions.

3/31/2012 8:05:25 AM

Mayhem

Classic case of someone who doesn't understand logic trying to debunk it.

3/31/2012 8:07:00 AM

Cy

I'd put my money on this conversation actually having happened - except it was the other way around, and instead of talking about logic and reason, it was talking about the deity and holy book of this fundie's preference. Possibly also morality/happiness/freedom/ whatever else this fundie believes you can't have without their religion.

3/31/2012 8:14:22 AM

LDM

Only the small-minded consider having the last word a victory.

3/31/2012 8:18:18 AM

Swede

*snoring loudly*
...huh, what? Did you say something?

How do I know my logical... what?

3/31/2012 8:26:16 AM

Panz

Aside from the stupidity of this, why is it everyone has such a problem with "you're" and "your"? I mean fuck, it's not that difficult to figure out which one to use.

3/31/2012 8:45:09 AM

Sgt

There's a rather interesting conversation in the source thread - fundie or no, this guy has actually thought about his position.

3/31/2012 8:54:55 AM

Lizuka

@ Panz

I guess their not effected by how stupid mixing up words sounds. Two bad.

Yeah, sorry, I couldn't resist.

3/31/2012 8:55:01 AM

Mr Blur

Hey, "a bunch words that might put you to sleep"!

3/31/2012 8:58:42 AM

speshuled67

i love wingnut mental masturbation.

3/31/2012 9:26:24 AM

TZL

Getting the final word sometimes simply means your conversational partner has disconnected.

3/31/2012 9:34:23 AM

Papabear

Even if this exchange did take place, it's meaningless as you would have only spoken with a retard, not someone versed in logic and capable of presenting the easily made position supporting logic and reason.

3/31/2012 9:35:07 AM

farpadokly

Reason is not "our only means of knowledge". A major part of our knowledge comes from our senses. Logic is a formal, rigorous means of establishing facts about the world that are consistent with reason. That there is a mind that reasons, and uses logic, has to be taken as a first principle. This philosophical battle was fought and won in the 17th century.
"How do you know that you reason correctly?". The answer to that is not "I compare my reason to the others". You can never really know whether you reason correctly. Conclusions are always tentative and provisional. We can, however, read other's ideas and evaluate them. The ultimate test is empirical: ie, does an idea match up with things we have observed or experienced through the senses. The senses can be augmented with scientific instruments, and the means to test a hypothesis is a practical experiment.
Logic is a formal system, like mathematics, for establishing statements about the world consistent with reason. It need not guide our minds. The minds of a large part of humankind are guided by superstition, delusions, or bigotry. These people are not lead by logic because it is in the interests of other people to keep them stupid, subservient and fearful. This is because some people want to control others.
Empiricism, logic, reason, are not flawless and there are problems with them. They do rest on an assumption, or a series of assumptions, about the mind and the world. (Religious people make similar assumptions, along with much huger ones, because the alternative is solipsism). But they are the best means we have of understanding the world. And to see their great pragmatic usefulness, look at the science-based health advances that have greatly increased the population of the world, and the science-based technological advances that have enabled you to write your sophistry on the internet.
No silence here.

3/31/2012 9:35:25 AM

wombat

In these fantasies the atheist also always speaks like a cartoon bully.

3/31/2012 9:42:58 AM

Doubting Thomas

So basically you're coming up with a bunch of nonsense arguments which, instead of blinding with brilliance, baffle with bullshit.

3/31/2012 10:06:16 AM

Matante

Hezekiah, I will charge you and all your kind for a new PageDown key.

3/31/2012 10:08:15 AM

Drax

Sounds like the sort of nonsense one of those early AI programs like Eliza or Parry used to spew out.

3/31/2012 10:15:10 AM

Reynardine

No, Zeke. The conversations go like this:

Fundie: The Bible is infallible.

Q: How do you know?

Fundie: Because it's the word of God.

Q: How do you know it's the word of God?

Fundie: Because the Bible says so.

Q: How do you know someone didn't make it up?

Fundie: Because the Bible is infallible.

Q: Excuse me. I have to take a leak.

3/31/2012 10:39:12 AM

Brendan Rizzo

Occam's razor, bitch.

3/31/2012 10:52:40 AM

Robespierre

Nice, now try arguing with real people.

3/31/2012 10:53:41 AM



But actually, how do you explain logic to some fundie/esoteric/conspiracy theory believer?

I think some of them do understand logic, but do not connect the concept to the word "Logic", instead believing that the word means something evil...

3/31/2012 11:31:02 AM

J. James

Asking endless streams of "Why?" is immature for a FUCKING FIVE YEAR OLD.

3/31/2012 11:41:42 AM

checkmate

Instead of writing a bunch words that might put you to sleep I will make this a little more entertaining:

tl;dr

3/31/2012 11:52:51 AM

Blue the Thief



Also, nice use of the strawman principle.

3/31/2012 12:15:35 PM

aaa

What the fuck is this shit?

3/31/2012 12:19:59 PM
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