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Quote# 86743

When we look at these books of history of the Old Testament, one of the things we need to recognize is God has preserved these for us because he wants us to understand how God deals with nations, nations that have entered into some kind of a covenantal relationship with Him and we have done that. We have done that in the United States of America. Our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution represents a covenantal relationship with God.

In the Declaration of Independence we told God, look we are building the entire foundation of this political experiment on you ... So our whole approach to government, our whole approach to our political life, our shared common life is rooted and grounded in the Bible. We have made a covenant relationship with God.

We even dated both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, we dated them to the year of the birth of Jesus Christ. In fact, when the Founders, when they dated the Constitution 'the year of our Lord, 1787,' they referred to Jesus as 'our Lord." Don't let people tell you that Christ is not in the Constitution; He's in there.

Bryan Fischer, Right Wing Watch 58 Comments [4/2/2012 3:36:09 AM]
Fundie Index: 78
Submitted By: Zagen30
WTF?! || meh
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Wehpudicabok

Oh my god SHUT THE HELL UP. Nobody likes hearing you speak. Ever. Just shut up. I mean, you make savagesusie a pleasure to read by comparison.

About your asinine last comment: All dates were (and technically still are) given relative to the birth of Jesus. By now this is maintained entirely for the sake of consistency. I am an atheist, but I still give dates relative to Jesus, so that I will be understood by others.

4/2/2012 3:46:56 AM

Paler_Face

When we look at these books of history of the Old Testament, one of the things we need to recognize is God has preserved these for us because he wants us to understand how God deals with nations, nations that have entered into some kind of a covenantal relationship with Him and we have done that.

So, that would be "murder everything in all nations that are not filled with people willing to kiss you god's arse".
To me, that's a reason to oppose your god, not to worship him/her/it/them.

4/2/2012 3:51:59 AM

Freethinker

In the Declaration of Independence we told God, look we are building the entire foundation of this political experiment on you


? where does it say that?
I'm not a US citizen, but wasn't the basic tenet something like Freedom and basic unalienatable rights as Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?

4/2/2012 4:01:43 AM

Nowonmai

The Old Testament isn't history. It's fables. There probably was a historical Jesus, a man like Gandhi, Buddha, or Martin Luther King that those in power decided to build a mythology around.

The Declaration of Independence is a purely secular document, no matter how you try to twist it. And that really chaps your ass, doesn't it?

4/2/2012 4:04:38 AM

michael3ov

I don't want to live in America anymore.

4/2/2012 4:07:57 AM

Mudak

Yes, the Declaration of Independence makes a single reference to god. I accept that, but where in the Declaration does it say anything about the type of government we wanted to form (if any)? I thought the declaration of independence, you know, declared our independence from the British monarchy.

4/2/2012 4:09:54 AM

N. De Plume

Hey, Bryan. You wanna know what else the writer of the Declaration of Independence wrote?

4/2/2012 4:28:32 AM

Reynardine

Under this kind of reasoning, writing "anno domini" constitutes both an admission and a contract?... I hope to carp these people *never* take over our legal system!!

4/2/2012 4:49:04 AM



Well, shit, it says 1936 in the Constitution of the USSR, too. As approved by J V Stalin. You sure you want to run with that argument?

4/2/2012 4:52:29 AM

Brendan Rizzo

Enough with this covenant bullshit! I don't know where fundies got the idea that the USA is God's chosen country, but it really pisses people off, especially when they utterly distort the words of the Founding Fathers to support their bullshit.

Oh, and Fischer can't really be saying that because the Constitution uses the Gregorian calendar that the United States is founded as a Christian nation, can he? Hell, I'm sure the copyright year on The God Delusion is given in A.D. Does that mean that Richard Dawkins is secretly a Christian who was just trolling everybody? There's grasping at straws, and then there's this. The sad part is that even moderate and liberal Americans seem to believe that this country was founded on religion and thus deserves special treatment. Nonreligious people are one of the most hated minorities here, and this is a situation that is unique to the USA amongst all First World nations. What will have to happen before people get a clue that wearing one's religion on one's sleeve is a bad thing?

4/2/2012 5:00:48 AM



In the Declaration of Independence we told God, look we are building the entire foundation of this political experiment on you

While the DoI was a cry out in the darkness for freedom, it's not the basis for our government. That would be the US Contstitution which doesn't mention Christianity, God, Jesus, Yahweh, Jehova, Bible, etc. in any way, shape or form.

Don't let people tell you that Christ is not in the Constitution; He's in there.

Where? Show me please. Exactly where Christ (or Jesus or Son of God or any other reference to him) is mentioned in the US Constitution. Please.

4/2/2012 5:16:19 AM

Mister Spak

"... So our whole approach to government, our whole approach to our political life, our shared common life is rooted and grounded in the Bible"

Constitution fail.

"We even dated both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, we dated them to the year of the birth of Jesus Christ. In fact, when the Founders, when they dated the Constitution 'the year of our Lord, 1787,' they referred to Jesus as 'our Lord." Don't let people tell you that Christ is not in the Constitution; He's in there."

If Islam isn't true why is the year 1432?

4/2/2012 5:29:10 AM

dionysus

That's pretty damn tenuous. We've used AD (which means "year of our lord") to signify this time period for centuries and at this point it's become basically just like a figure of speech. We use the Pagan names for each day of the week ("Moon day", "Tiw's day", "Woden's day", "Thor's day", "Frigg's day", "Saturn day", "Sun day"), does that mean that we are a Pagan nation?

4/2/2012 5:51:29 AM

Robespierre

Suppose that the founders were not Deists, but Christians who believed in the biblical God and thought that human rights depend on God's will and nothing else.

Why should we agree with the founders?

4/2/2012 5:57:34 AM

TheLastCenturion

This is gods country *skip* This is gods country *skip* This is gods country *skip* This is gods country *skip* This is gods country *skip* This is gods country *skip* This is gods country *skip* This is gods country *skip* This is gods country *skip* This is gods country *skip* This is gods country *skip* This is gods country *skip* This is gods country *skip* This is gods country *skip* This is gods country *skip* This is gods country *skip* This is gods country *skip* This is gods country *skip*

4/2/2012 6:10:58 AM

Big Jilm

So, what you're saying is that when the first "Americans" were committing mass genocide, they did it under the protection and guidance of the Lord?

Good to know.

4/2/2012 6:22:07 AM



So what? The Founders also didn't believe Africans had human rights, didn't believe in women's suffrage, and didn't believe in endless wars in the Middle East. A lot has changed since then.

4/2/2012 6:57:06 AM

Horsefeathers

"We have done that in the United States of America. Our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution represents a covenantal relationship with God."

And you came to this conclusion after how many blows to the head?

"In the Declaration of Independence we told God, look we are building the entire foundation of this political experiment on you ..."

The Declaration of Independence is not much more than a "Fuck You!" letter to King George. It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual establishment of this country as it's not a legal document.

"We have made a covenant relationship with God."

You may have. I, however, have not.

"We even dated both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, we dated them to the year of the birth of Jesus Christ."

It says, "In the Year of Our Lord" which is nothing more than a linguistic convention. The phrase was popular at the time and means nothing more than the fact that just about everyone in the Western world shares the same calendar.

"In fact, when the Founders, when they dated the Constitution 'the year of our Lord, 1787,' they referred to Jesus as 'our Lord.'"

You find me "Jesus" in the Declaration then.

"Don't let people tell you that Christ is not in the Constitution; He's in there."

It must be very small print.

4/2/2012 7:08:24 AM

Doubting Thomas

In the Declaration of Independence we told God, look we are building the entire foundation of this political experiment on you ... So our whole approach to government, our whole approach to our political life, our shared common life is rooted and grounded in the Bible.

I don't know what Declaration of Independence you're reading, but it's not the one from the United States of America because it doesn't say squat about the bible.

We even dated both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, we dated them to the year of the birth of Jesus Christ.

Probably because EVERY western nation at the time had been using the Gregorian calender since, well, Gregory.

they referred to Jesus as 'our Lord."

Better read it again, because the Constitution doesn't mention Jesus at all. At any rate, it doesn't matter because the First Amendment says there will be no establishment of religion. I don't understand why fundies never can seem to understand that part of the Constitution.

The thing that pisses me off the most is that people in other countries will read this and think that all Americans are just as religious and crazy as the idiots who write this crap.

4/2/2012 7:13:27 AM

Swede

Did God also tell the bishops in the Council of Nicea to vote on which books to keep and which books to throw out?

You have never read your Constitution, have you? The date is probably the only place in which Jesus is mentioned. Btw, that was how you always stated a date, for everything, back then, stupid.

4/2/2012 7:35:45 AM

Osiris

That's how dates where done back then, especially for very formal documents. Your argument is what I'm going to call "argument from culture normativity", where God exists because people who don't believe in him act in a way according to a culture where a majority of the people still do.

4/2/2012 8:00:29 AM

GodotIsWaiting4U

The US wasn't much of a political experiment. Democracy wasn't a new thing, ESPECIALLY not how the Founding Fathers set it up. The only experiment was the whole "we're a colony trying to not just collapse after revolting" bit.

The Declaration of Independence does not describe policy. It is just "fuck you George".

"we dated them to the year of the birth of Jesus Christ"

I don't think you know what "dated them to the year" means.

4/2/2012 8:34:18 AM

John

"The year of our Lord" is simply there to specify the calendar system. It's the English translation of "anno domini" (AD), which was the standard calendar in use in the West for the last 1,000 years or so. What else would they have used? The Chinese calendar? Even atheists use the standard AD calendar.

4/2/2012 8:39:09 AM

JohnTheAtheist

Funny how Jesus, god and christianity are mentioned exactly zero times in the constitution. That is an amazing oversight.

Go away Bryan.

4/2/2012 8:39:12 AM

Papabear

"We even dated both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, we dated them to the year of the birth of Jesus Christ."

Even for BryBry this is way over the top.

4/2/2012 8:56:42 AM
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