People who read the Bible looking for more than Selected Ammunition Verses, would realize that contained within the New Testament is, ultimately, the only thing that succeeded in finally extirpating slavery: namely, the insistence that man is made in the image and likeness of God and that Christ loves the slave as much as the master. The mystical dogma of human equality in the eye’s of God (and that is what it is, not an empirical observation based on reason) is the only thing that has ever succeeded in killing the dragon of slavery. Of course, the New Atheists are stone blind to this in their deep ignorance and arrogance and so fail to realize that the first result of extirpating Christianity is the return of slavery: a practice which goes on unabated outside of all the spheres of the world untouched by the Christian tradition and soon to return to the West if the New Atheists succeed in suppressing the Christian tradition.
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Those against slavery used/use [insert religion here] to justify their position, just as those FOR slavery used/use [insert religion here] to justify their position. That's what you get when a belief system is based on fiction and mythology.
Also, there is plenty of slavery in plenty of Christian nations, you ignorant shit stain.
Even if your silly-ass assertion were true, how does it prove the main question: the existence or non-existence of a god? Some children might be good because they follow the examples of the Berenstain Bears, that doesn't mean that anthropomorphic ursids are living in the woods.
Wanna know something amazing, moron? Both sides of the slavery argument used the Bible to "prove" that God was on their side.
Who wudda thunk it? A book full of vague contradictions taken as absolute truth could be used to equally support opposite arguments!
Canadiest
Sit down children, it's time for another Christian history rewrite, where we pretend the things that are recognized as good in society are always to be atributed to the church.
Never mind that the church still operates as if they own their flock and every racist group has deep religious convictions. Ignore that, ignore the vast documentation of the various Christian denomonations against freeing the slaves back when and those that still call for it's return.
Funny how slavery managed to exist for 1865 years of the Christian era, then, isn't it?
(It is true that some very Christian people, like Wilberforce, were at the forefront of the abolitionist movement. But so was Darwin).
Mark Shea in his arrogance and ignorance has failed to note that slavery wasn't abolished until 1850 years after Jesus. and that was only in some countries.
In others it is still alive and thriving.
Not much of a recommendation, eh Mark?
"within the New Testament is, ultimately, the only thing that succeeded in finally extirpating slavery: namely, the insistence that man is made in the image and likeness of God and that Christ loves the slave as much as the master. "
But that was cancelled out by the verse that tells slaves to obey their master. So much so that this verse was used by christians to 'prove' that god approved of slavery in the american southeast and anyone who opposed it was an infidel.
On the other hand, Charles Darwin was an abolitionist, so I guess the Theory of Evolution ended slavery, and Christians hate Evolution beause it opposes their pro-slavery religion.
> the insistence that man is made in the image and likeness of God and that Christ loves the slave as much as the master
So it's "hate the sin, love the sinner" all over again?
"Look, there's nothing wrong with slaves as people ! They're just slaves, but that's not their personal fault, is it? We should love them all the same while we boss them around!"
You can create these categories of people all you want, but if the choice has to be made between treating people like those afflicted with (Insert Sin Here) and human beings, there really isn't much choice on the matter. You treat people like human beings. If you don't, quit pretending you do.
Christ loves the slave as much as the master.
Saying you love slaves is easy. I'm sure that's a great comfort to them. [/sarcasm]
The mystical dogma of human equality in the eye’s of God ... is the only thing that has ever succeeded in killing the dragon of slavery.
You think maybe the US South gave up slavery because of the "mystical dogma of human equality in the eye’s [sic] of God", as opposed to, say, a .58 caliber musket ball between the eyes?
People who read the Bible looking for more than Selected Ammunition Verses, would realize that contained within the New Testament is, ultimately, the only thing that succeeded in finally extirpating slavery
Then Jesus should have been clearer with his intentions. For over 1000 years slavery was a common thing in Western, Christian-majority (like the US) and legally-Christian (like medieval and Renaissance Europe) nations. Those nations even justified slavery USING THE BIBLE. For a supposedly omniscient, wise deity he sure did a crap job of expressing his intentions.
Had he quit at "dragon of slavery", then, given he is writing for a religious publication, he would have done fine. But no: he had to go pick a fight, and, it seems, so do they all.
@Mayhem
New Atheism = 4000 year old atheism + "We're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore."
People like Shea would have no problem with atheists if we'd just sit quietly and praise Jesus like we've been doing for the last several centuries. But now we're getting uppity.
Oh, good, it's yet another fluffy bunny who thinks that the "mystical dogma" "contained in" a text somehow cancels out what that text plainly says. It's amazing how Christians managed to overlook that mystical dogma for the majority of Christian history.
And yet, to this day, there are Christians saying slavery is okay because of the Bible. Like this one. And this one. And this one.
If God viewed all humans as equal and wanted slavery to go away, why beat around the bush? Why not just decree "to own another human as property is an abomination unto the LORD" and call down the smiting on anyone who continues to own slaves? According to the Bible, God had no problem with punishing others for a lack of hospitality, or picking up sticks on Sunday, or making fun of someone's bald head, but for "killing the dragon of slavery," it takes 2000 years and we have to to most of the work? In fact, it didn't even begin to go away until the Renaissance, when people in the West began to realize that maybe the Church wasn't so infallible after all and secular values began to emerge.
Of course, the bible was also used to justify slavery by those who wanted to continue the institution. It just goes to show what a load of bullshit the bible is. If it is a perfect book, written or inspired by the omnibenevolent creator of the universe it should have been crytal clear that slavery is at least as much of an abomination as two men engaging in oral sex.
Stupid dick.
Well you Christians have a piss-poor reading comprehension if it took you nearly 2000 years to "get it" about slavery.
Oh wait...Southerners used the Bible (OT and NT) to justify owning slaves.
Now go fuck off, you demonizing, slavery-apologist.
jesus-face-tortilla for the win, and,
John Locke. Now STFU you possibly well-meaning but ignorant twit. The Bible is an owner's manual for population control that can be used to prove anything that's useful at the moment. Love your neighbor, kill them heathens, etc., etc.
Why do I have a feeling that there are more Atheists than Christians (both percentage-wise and in absolute numbers) who actually read the Bible?
Someone who has actually read the book cannot be so ignorant of its contents.
"People who read the Bible looking for more than Selected Ammunition Verses, would realize that contained within the New Testament is, ultimately, the only thing that succeeded in finally extirpating slavery: namely, the insistence that man is made in the image and likeness of God and that Christ loves the slave as much as the master."
Curious that the Bible, supposedly the word of the omnipotent, omniscient God, needs to be rear in a certain way for one to understand it's anti-slavery message... unlike, maybe, just writing down that slavery is wrong. Pardon my "deep ignorance and arrogance."
hey, give my people some credit. what about the dutch slave trade? you know, the one that made rediculous amounts of money capturing slaves in africa and selling them to rich landowners in the states? im pretty sure that happened after christ established the equality of men.
and dont be such a damned hypocrite. catholics founded the idea of indentured servitude(read:slavery) to get around that exact rule. you all make me sick.
@ Wehpudicabok:
Funnily enough, you CAN. You know that story about Jesus healing the servant of that centurion? Well, in the original Greek text, supposedly the word used for servant specifically means "homosexual partner". You learn something new every day...
And you'd think if God was so against slavery, it would have been one of the Ten Commandments.
Thou Shall Not Enslave Another Human Being.
But then that would fuck up the building blocks for the Conservative economic model.
God would rather instruct humans to kiss his ass rather than treat each other right.
Your religion is fuct!
The abolitionist movement in America and Britain was a Christian movement organized in churches, by people who were devout Christians. But the slavers in the South were also Christian and likewise used their own Biblical rhetoric. The South African system of apartheid was specifically rooted in that country's interpretation of the Bible. The reality is that Christians who have been both pro and anti slavery used the Bible to support and justify their positions. They were able to do so because the Bible contains just as many verses that support slavery as it does verses that appear to condemn it.
This is not like the New Atheist movement. To New Atheists slavery is abhorrent. Not one atheists has ever spoken in favor of it, and unlike Christians, atheists have no higher authority to call upon to justify slavery in the first place.
"The mystical dogma of human equality in the eye’s of God (and that is what it is, not an empirical observation based on reason) is the only thing that has ever succeeded in killing the dragon of slavery"
John Locke believed in the equality of man under God (and argued against slavery in most circumstances in Second Treatise).
John Locke also held shares in slaveholding companies.
You lose.
Don't you just love when crazy assholes tell you what your opinion is and then foam at the mouth when you tell the otherwise?
I wonder how readily this shithead would call for the return of Christ-appoved slavery if all the Christians of the world made up the slave population?
I for one still wouldn't approve.
Jesus may love the slave as much as the master, but He also wants the slaves to continue living AS SLAVES:
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."
-- Ephesians 6:5
Mark Shea is right, in a very limited sense.
The Abolitionist movement in the U.S., which eventually led to the Civil War, was unequivocably a Christian movement.
Of course, the slaveholders in the South were equally Christian, and were just as quick to dredge up other Bible verses that defended the practice of slavery....
Stop Lying For Christ!!
Slaver used the Bible to **justify** slavery and you know it.
This, then is the classic Xian tactic--claiming the credit for all good sides of any action while denying any other factor or opposition to the Church had anything to do with it.
Let me spell this out; outright slavery aside, so-called God-fearing whites burned churches blacks went to because the preachers there dared speak to racial equality.
Stop. Lying. For. Christ.
The Bible and Christianity had absolutely NOTHING to do with the anti-slavery movement and quite a few that fought against it used the Church as an excuse factory--just like you.
@Tracer: To be fair to Jesus, which I don't usually bother doing, Ephesians is a letter from Paul. Jesus didn't generally talk about himself as an absolute authority that had to be obeyed, especially not that blatantly, because he wasn't seen as a deity yet when he was alive. He also was unreliably concerned with the fabric of society.
Paul was a dick. He also made Christianity something that could survive and thrive in the temporal world that persisted in not ending, and adapt itself to many converts.
I'll admit there were some sane Christians against slavery, but it's still in your Old Testament, which you fundies love to bring out to support your anti- gay "argument" (for example) whilst ignoring all other rules. You can use said Bible to justify slavery or not. How very moral of you Christians. /Sarcasm -_-
There's "Selected Ammunition Verses" in the Bible? Gosh! Fancy that! Surely, there can't be, otherwise who would ever take it seriously?
"Of course, the New Atheists are stone blind to this in their deep ignorance and arrogance...."
Blimey! It seems that their on the verge of becoming ranting God-botherers. If only they would add gullibility to their deep ignorance and arrogance, they'd be there.
Here he acts like slavery was some inevitable disease or natural occurrence, instead of a direct result of a specific social and economic system.
Also happily ignores the Old Testament, with its inconvenient advocacy of slavery.
"the insistence that man is made in the image and likeness of God and that Christ loves the slave as much as the master". How comes this was ignored during the Christian centuries when serfdom existed, which is only one step up from slavery?
I think human equality is an empirical observation based on reason. There is certainly no empirical basis for supposing that one person or group of persons is inherently "better" than any other.
I don't even think that most atheists want to "extirpate Christianity". Slavery still goes on, and it goes on in the Christian west. This is because the cause of slavery is a specific economic system.
Slavery was kept going for economic reasons, and was killed in America only by decades of pressure and finally by military force. The abolitionists happened to be living in a time when humanitarianism was mostly expressed in Christian language, that's all.
"...the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says." 1 Corinthians 4:34
"Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent." 1 Timothy 2:11-12
"Likewise you wives, be submissive to your husbands." 1 Peter 3:1
{New Testament is, ultimately, the only thing that succeeded in finally extirpating slavery }
Yeah, something about white Protestant plantation owners owning black slaves, and using the bible to justify their atrocities. Last I checked that was after the New Testament.
{man is made in the image and likeness of God and that Christ loves the slave as much as the master. }
How does this in any way discourage slavery? If anything it seems God is okay with it. Just more of the "I love you but I won't help you" attitude of God that's surprisingly rampant throughout Christianity.
Except that a person who owns slaves doesn't DESERVE to be respected or loved.
Oh dear me, I'm sorry. That was a bit harsh. It doesn't change the fact that a slaveowner is a douchebag.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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