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Quote# 86904

The atheists need meaning so they try to become good people by being liked and doing good deeds. The problem is that they or a group of them decide what a good deed is or who are the good people by consensus or group think. The group may decide it is good such as Hitler’s Germany who said they needed to weed out the weak and infirmed for the greater good of society. Same with our society that says it is better to kill a baby than to bring it into poverty even in a country that prides itself on upward mobility. The group may decide it can destroy a business if it decides the business isn’t satisfying some arbitrary goal they set up which makes them a good person. The society may define what is living a good life and what is not by brainwashing that society into an agenda driven set of morals to make those people try to become good people.


Bray, Free Republic 43 Comments [4/15/2012 2:59:53 AM]
Fundie Index: 48
WTF?! || meh
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Reynardine

Bray is a very good name for a steeplejackass, isn't it?

4/15/2012 3:13:21 AM

Freethinker

"they try to become good people by being liked and doing good deeds"

This is the only part of this rant which makes sense and basically is true as well. The rest.. well let's say: If you're trying to accuse atheists of immoral behavior by this reasoning, you should put away your mirror...

4/15/2012 3:15:12 AM

anevilmeme

What exactly is in the water over at free republic?

4/15/2012 3:23:51 AM

Blue the Thief

This started off pretty well, but then; Godwin.


4/15/2012 3:24:53 AM

Lpopman

Godwinned. You lose. Next...

4/15/2012 3:25:51 AM

farpadokly

How else would you decide what a good deed is except by consensus? Nazi Germany wasn't really an instance of consensus decision-making, but of the unjust use of power.
There is a broad general consensus among people about what is wrong and right.
"An agenda driven set of morals". What agenda could a set of morals have, except to maximise happiness and minimise suffering?
It seems to me the real target you should be focusing on is not consensus-based ethics and morals, but authoritarian power structures.
Ironically, what do the theists offer? An authoritarian power structure.

4/15/2012 3:29:14 AM

atropa

"The problem is that they or a group of them decide what a good deed is or who are the good people by consensus or group think."

Because it's so much more sensible to base your idea of what is right and wrong on texts written 2-3 thousand years ago.

4/15/2012 4:16:58 AM



"...so they try to become good people by being liked and doing good deeds."

Uh, you're bearing false witness, there, dearie, because you know damn well that the thinking behind helping the poor and the sick, as Jesus taught, and Hitler's genocide/eugenics, are not equivalent. But it's interesting to note the mental gymnastics you use to minimize your own selfishness and hypocrisy by denying the genuinely charitable nature of others who do the work you should be doing if you claim so loudly to follow Jesus.

Oh, and removing a clump of cells is not "killing a baby".

4/15/2012 4:18:55 AM

Filin De Blanc

Trying to be a good person - the epitome of evil.

4/15/2012 4:26:50 AM



So, you think you can just sit on your ass while advocating (and voting for) the rich, big business, and cutting social welfare programs (which is one reason some women have abortions), but you're still automatically a "good person" because you believe in God, but atheists who actually do things to help those less fortunate than themselves are bad people, trying to become "good", or convince themselves that they are?

Perhaps you should re-read the Sermon on the Mount.

4/15/2012 4:30:23 AM

Mr Blur

Even for Free Republic, this is dumb.

4/15/2012 4:36:19 AM

Mudak

I'm not sure which is worse in this post: the Godwin or the reference to abortion as killing a "baby".

4/15/2012 4:41:57 AM

Agahnim

We do have meaning. It's just that we have meaning in this life because we don't believe in one after it. You just have meaning for the pathetic reason of dying to go meet Jesus and this life is just a meaningless waiting room of sorts for that.

4/15/2012 5:09:23 AM

Extraintrovert

The Nazi's were majority Catholic, you moron. You know, one of the many religions that requires unquestioning obedience to insane and self-contradictory doctrines, otherwise you will be punished FOREVER! If groupthink led to Nazism, then religion had more to do with it than anything to do with atheism.

Also, fuck off with the abortion shaming. If you fundies didn't have such a hate-on for sex education and contraception maybe the USA wouldn't have such high abortion rates compared to every other developed nation. And if you think the USA has good social mobility then you are especially deluded.

4/15/2012 5:17:27 AM

Alencon

Yes, except athiests don't claim that what Hitler's Germany did was good.

As for abortion, how many times does this have to be clarified. I don't say that it's "better to kill a baby than to bring it into poverty." If it's not my body, it's not my decision.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "decided the business isn't satisfying some arbitrary goal." Isn't it you right wing fruitloop type that think businesses should be left to their own devices to sink or swim regardless of the potential damage a failure would cause?

4/15/2012 7:58:07 AM

Apatheist

Society brainwashes itself?

4/15/2012 8:29:28 AM

Swede

My life is full of meaning, I don't have to try to give it meaning.
I do try my best to be a good person, by treating others as I want to be treated, by aiming at making people happy and content, by not harming anyone mentally or physically.

What part of "Gott mit uns" (God is with us) don't you understand, Bray? Where is the atheism in that sentence?

Many large groups (the ones called "countries") have some kind of constitution in place, to protect against the down-sides of democracy. They also have laws to protect against smaller groups or individuals acting out what they think is good, but which harms other people.

4/15/2012 8:35:38 AM

Mayhem

And all this is different from you fundies....how?

4/15/2012 8:48:18 AM

Anonymous

Once past the first sentence that doubts that atheists can honestly and innately be good people, this post is just stating the obvious and adding in a dash of hysteria. All societies decide what deeds are good and what deeds are bad by "conensus or group think." And the standards are all too often arbitrary. The author simply fears the result unless people who think just like him are making the rules. That's a pretty common fear and imho hard wired in our biology.

4/15/2012 9:01:35 AM

Hotspur

Bray is the noise an ass makes, right?

4/15/2012 9:03:17 AM

Blahdeblah

The society may define what is living a good life and what is not by brainwashing that society into an agenda driven set of morals to make those people try to become good people.

Which is different from what fundies do because...

4/15/2012 9:09:57 AM

Polymeron

While obviously not limited to atheism, that is actually a real problem with subjective morality that has been the subject of vigorous philosophical debate. Seems reasonable to discuss it.

Not that theism has any better answers, mind. "I imagined someone told me via really vague and indirect means what is right, and I sorta think that someone probably knows something I don't?! And yet I just behave according to my own conscience regardless of what my holy book actually says" is not an improvement over, well, any moral system. Still, not exactly fundie material...

4/15/2012 9:35:30 AM

Frelus

And I thought that was what fundies do....
Irony meter isnt fixed yet, thank the FSM, or it would have exploded again.
The way it is, only a little puff came out of it

4/15/2012 10:04:54 AM

nazani14

It's been a long damn time since the US has prided itself on upward mobility.

4/15/2012 11:21:03 AM

checkmate

they try to become good people by being liked and doing good deeds.

How awful! They shoud be ashamed of themselves.

It's much better to go the fundamental Christian way: go out of your way to make everybody hate you and call any good deeds a commie liberal conspiracy.

Jesus is preparing your reward for you right now.

4/15/2012 12:05:58 PM
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