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Quote# 86940

Humans Are Devolving

“We are all mutants,” proclaimed a headline on Science Daily. “First Direct Whole-Genome Measure of Human Mutation Predicts 60 New Mutations in Each of Us.” The Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute press release reported 60 new mutations per individual, received from parents – a “striking value” the article characterized the “unexpected findings”. The genomes of children from two families were inspected in this first-ever test of generational mutation. “This fascinating result had not been anticipated, and it raises as many questions as it answers,” the article exclaimed without offering an explanation of how evolution could deal with this high a mutational load. See also the 06/05/2011 entry, “Genetic Entropy Confirmed.”

Note: the Sanger Institute is named after geneticist Fred Sanger, not (thank goodness) Margaret Sanger, the racist-eugenicist founder of Planned Parenthood. She had thought eliminating the unfit would be improve humanity. Would that Sanger, Hitler and other believers in eugenics had known what John Sanford revealed so clearly in his book Genetic Entropy and the Mystery of the Genome; all attempts to stop the tide of mutations are hopelessly ineffective. Not even extreme genocide of all the perceived unfit could stop the downward trend.

Even one or two mutations per generation is cause for alarm, let alone 60. John Sanford’s book is must reading to realize two things: (1) Natural selection can never find enough beneficial mutations to overcome the flood of deleterious ones, most of which are nearly-neutral mistakes that accumulate, like typographic errors, to cause genetic deterioration. (2) Humans could not possibly have lived for millions of years at this rate of mutational degradation. This story only reinforces with empirical data a worry about the future of our species that has long been known by population geneticists. We are not evolving, despite improvements in medicine; we are all less fit than Neanderthals and ancient Romans. Unless the Lord intervenes, the human genome is doomed.


Creation Evolution Headlines, Creation Evolution Headlines 51 Comments [4/16/2012 3:25:23 AM]
Fundie Index: 57
Submitted By: Brendan Rizzo
WTF?! || meh
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Argle Bargle

Monkey men all
In business suits
Teachers and critics
All dance the poot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBmRGS1CenI

4/16/2012 3:33:27 AM

Atheissimo

There's no such thing as 'Devolution'. As a species, we can only become better adapted to our environment. The reason some species become extinct is because they didn't mutate enough, not that they somehow mutated themselves out of existence.

Given the length of the human life cycle, 2000 years since the ancient Romans is not enough time to see a difference in human evolution. 2000 years is a nanosecond in evolutionary time, come back in 200,000 years.

4/16/2012 3:37:43 AM



Humans Are Devolving



I can go along with that. Modesty forbids, but what the hell. Billions of years of evolution has resulted in me; the very pinnacle of evolution. Where can it go from here? Only downhill I'm afraid.

4/16/2012 3:55:13 AM

gravematter

Most mutations are in fact neutral. Negative mutations may somewhat outweigh the positive, but by what mechanism, exactly, can deleterious mutations survive? And hey, Margaret Sanger did believe in eugenics, but you know, it was also popular among a lot of very well-respected people of the time. Anyway, ad hominem etc etc.

4/16/2012 4:10:14 AM

Leighton Buzzard

Where the hell do you get the idea that these mutations are in any way harmful?

4/16/2012 4:16:03 AM

Extraintrovert

Creationists need to stop reading so many X-Men comics. Mutations are nothing more than VARIATIONS in the genetic code, created due to things such as transcription errors. Furthermore, not only is 60 per generation pitifully small considering the number of codes present, but a large part of our codes are redundant or outright useless "junk" data (which, by the way, is solid evidence for evolution and damning evidence against any of us being "created"), which means the probability of any of these mutations having any significant effect is not even worth considering. Then again, asking a creationist to have any understanding of genetics is a losing battle.

4/16/2012 4:35:08 AM

Jezebel's Evil Sister

Are you and your siblings all exact generic duplicates of both of your parents? No? Then, congratulations, you're a mutant!

4/16/2012 4:47:13 AM

Brendan Rizzo

Yes, you are a mutant. You do not have any debilitating genetic diseases. This is because most mutations are neutral. NEUTRAL. They do nothing to affect the performance of the organism. The genetic code is redundant in places, so why is this so difficult to understand?

4/16/2012 4:56:20 AM

michael3ov

"Even one or two mutations per generation is cause for alarm, let alone 60"

How about 300 to 400 every generation? That is approximately how many mutations you have from your parents DNA and it is in no way cause for alarm. Try to actually learn something before you speak again please.

4/16/2012 5:08:10 AM

\m/>_<\m/

@#1393027:

you win so hard, i'm still laughing!

4/16/2012 5:26:40 AM

D Laurier

Life is not an X-men comic.

4/16/2012 5:42:16 AM

Reynardine

I always wondered where Friedmanists and Dominionists kept coming from. Now this guy explains it.

4/16/2012 5:42:34 AM

Mister Spak

Failapalooza.

Behold the magnitude of your fail.

http://discovermagazine.com/2009/mar/09-they-dont-make-homo-sapiens-like-they-used-to

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/12/111222161213.htm

http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=human-evolution-ii-recent-evolution-09-11-03



4/16/2012 5:53:15 AM

TheLastCenturion

@Atheissimo

Actually, since the time of the ancient romans, average mature human height has increased by around a foot. It may not be habilus to erectus, but its still pretty cool huh?

@article
im sure you've heard this before(and for some reason chose to completely ignore it), so lets do a refresher.

there are 3 kinds of mutations: beneficial, detrimental, and inert.

beneficial mutations are good, and can do anything from making you slightly less susceptible to infection, to giving you better thinking power, to making you naturally stronger than other people.

detrimental: these mutations are bad, and could be responsible for anything from allergies to recurring cancer.

inert: these mutation dont really DO anything, but still exist.

it is possible for any mutation to be any of those three, and mutation doesnt happen the way it does in X men. there are no great leaps and bounds in evolution, only slight improvements, and natural selection of individuals who have genes better suited to their environment. you cant observe speciation in a single generation.

however, he is KIND of right. the lack of stress on our species(in the first world anyhow) means that the "weakest" no longer have to compete with the rest for food and water and such, so those with a majority of "bad" mutations aren't "weeded" out, which kind of stagnates our evolution.(not trying to offend anyone, just trying to impart the ideas as easily as possible without resorting to PC jargon)

4/16/2012 6:01:34 AM

Agahnim

Denialism: because I don't like reality when it doesn't conform to my narrow worldview.

4/16/2012 6:08:02 AM

Philbert McAdamia

Are we not men? We are devo.
-----------------------------------------

@ Argle Bargle

;-)

4/16/2012 6:16:13 AM

The Duelist

"Humans could not possibly have lived for millions of years at this rate of mutational degradation."

Um, fuckwit? The fossil record proves that yes, we can. Natural selection selects out harmful mutations and selects beneficial ones, and is it just me or does this guy sound like a border-line racist himself?

"Not even extreme genocide of all the perceived unfit could stop the downward trend."

Creepy.

4/16/2012 6:22:45 AM

Papabear

You assume all mutations are bad. You fail.

4/16/2012 6:55:13 AM

Hertzyscowicz

You just had to throw in Sanger-bashing, didn't you?

4/16/2012 7:17:44 AM

Anon-e-moose

Humans Are Devolving

“We are all mutants,”

Well, you fundies are:



Q: Why don't those in the Bible Belt accept Evolution?

A: Because it hasn't happened there yet.

4/16/2012 7:44:03 AM



Mutations aren't (necessarily) degradation, and when they are, things like natural selection, sexual selection, and sperm competition tend to get rid of them. This reminds me of the idea that males are going to die out because the Y Chromosome is getting smaller, a wierd koro-like idea which makes no evolutionary sense whatsoever. Fits with the typical conservative rhetoric about how society is going to the dogs and degrading into immoral filth, mind you.

Actually, they say that reducing selection pressure can actually speed up evolution because it allows new mutations that would have been weeded out to develop into new things, like humans and domesticated animals, whereas high selection pressure makes things drop risky new features to survive.

Though, I hear some of the more isolated groups like Native Americans didn't have certain genetic diseases until outsiders arrived, since the mutation hadn't appeared yet. How old are the genetic diseases we know today? 1000 years? 10000 years? What about the skin and hair colours we have these days? They say we had a genetic bottleneck a few tens of thousands of years ago, now if that hadn't happened, we'd have a pretty interesting world, especially if you kept bunches of people isolated in little isolated communes with sexual selection driving weird stuff to happen.

4/16/2012 8:19:40 AM

Berny

The only humans "devolving" are creationist retards.

4/16/2012 8:35:05 AM

breakerslion

You really don't have a clue, do you?

"Humans could not possibly have lived for millions of years at this rate of mutational degradation."

What proof do you offer for that assertion to contradict the obvious? I though not.

" ... we are all less fit than Neanderthals and ancient Romans."

Speak for yourself, you starch-munching couch potato. Fitness has more to do with lifestyle, unless you are talking about our society's ability to care for those who would perish in ancient times.

"Unless the Lord intervenes, the human genome is doomed."

Are you questioning His Plan? Heretic!

4/16/2012 10:15:24 AM

Osiris

*sigh*

Every human has about sixty mutations. That seems like a low ball estimate. I've heard numbers ranging in the 300s. For the vast majority of us, those mutations don't do anything, in fact those are the mutations that make us all distinct. Let's face it, no one is ever an exact carbon copy of their parents, every newborn has unique features. These mutations are where they come from. Or have you ever heard of a DNA fingerprint? It's a set of base nucleotides that are unique to every single person on the planet. That's because 90% of your DNA literally doesn't do anything, and that's also where 90% of mutations happen. Seriously, almost all of these hundreds of mutations that happen while you develop are specifically the things that make you unique from all the other human beings that have ever existed, and ever will exist.
X-Men may not be the best source for understanding mutation and evolution, but in X-Men: First Class Charles Xavier was completely right when he pointed out that anyone with blonde hair is a mutant, because blonde hair is the result of a mutation in the gene that controls pigmentation of hair. Same with red hair.
The vast majority of mutations are harmless and unless you have a rare, killer mutation like cystic fibrosis, whether or not you possess a mutation that is harmful or beneficial is determined by your environment.

4/16/2012 10:32:00 AM

Doubting Thomas

They tell us that
We lost our tails
Evolving up
From little snails
I say it's all
Just wind in sails
Are we not men?
We are DEVO.

4/16/2012 10:42:08 AM
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