Quote# 87075


Of countries that lived must better under imperialism than without it, well, lets just say Africa and be done with it. Civilization, the rule of law, infrastructure improvements, advances in medicine have all been spread through imperialism of some kind. Once the imperialistic whites were removed from Africa, the Flower of Rhodesia became the starving poverty stricken Zimbabwe. Without an imperial force, Nigeria is in a religious civil war right now. The colonial government of Somalia left and we have - Somalia. Without an imperial army, we had the Hutu Tutsi war, starving Biafrans and the genocidal war of Rwanda. It's a wonder what's left of the sane people in Africa haven't asked the Boers to come back!

Imperialism is a necessary component of progress. I'm certainly happy that there was an Imperial Rome, an Imperial Britian and if there wasn't an Imperial Spain, we likely wouldn't be here.

Kathy64, Where Liberty Dwells 54 Comments [4/25/2012 3:05:24 AM]
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"well, lets just say Africa and be done with it"

You mean Africa was better off back in the days when 95% of the continent's population lived in abject poverty? Even with Africa's problems today nowhere near 95% of the population is poor like it was under colonialism, when only the small white enclave lived in any semblance of comfort.

"Civilization, the rule of law"

Yes, because slaughtering in excess of 30 million people, raping native women and ranching off 95% of the population into poverty-stricken corrals and reservations with barely arable or non-arable land is "civilized". As "civilized" as King Leopold's policy of chopping off hands of non-obedient Africans. Read up on the "Herero and Namaqua Genocide". Or Belgium's genocide in central Africa. Or the destruction of the Shona people.

Yeah, Africans not having any constitutional rights is "rule of law" alright.

"infrastructure improvements, advances in medicine"

5/1/2012 9:57:04 PM


"infrastructure improvements, advances in medicine"

Africa has more infrastructure now than it had any point under the Europeans:


Not to mention there are plenty of fairly well-off and up and coming African countries (Libya, South Africa, Namibia, Angola, Gabon, Ghana, Mauritius, Seychelles, Equatorial Guinea, Botswana).


In 2010 S. Africa was listed as a "Newly Industrialized Country".

Won't even get into the native infrastructure of advanced empires like the Songhai/Mali Empire being destroyed by Europeans (or read the punitive European destruction of the Benin City). Or the vast medical knowledge and advancements by civilizations like the Songhai Empire and the esoteric medical knowledge of people like Dahomey shamans. All destroyed by colonialism.

"the Flower of Rhodesia became the starving poverty stricken Zimbabwe"

That's because Ian Smith and Robert Mugabe did not invest in nationwide industrialized farming and Mugabe got into trouble with foreign borrowing and punitive IMF/World bank measures that caused hyperinflation. Zimbabwe was one of the most well-off sub-Saharan countries until the early 90s.

I digress.

5/1/2012 9:57:45 PM


Vox> er, sorry, but by what measure is Equatorial Guinea a relatively well-off country? From what I've heard it's one of the hell-holes...

5/2/2012 3:37:40 AM


Regarding the OP (and continuing on Vox's post):

Also, if I recall correctly, various indicators of quality of life in Zimbabwe improved significantly between 1980 (Rhodesia->Zimbabwe; start of majority rule) and 1990 (a crisis hit the country in the early '90s IIRC).

That's because Mugabe actually did do one thing right - his government created opportunities for a wide number of black people to get an education and access to basic health services... as opposed to Smith's, who - being white supremacists - really didn't give much of a damn about the 'darkies' as long as they worked the fields and kept their heads down.

Rhodesia was an apartheid state, with all that that implies. Sure, the laws were different in some ways from South Africa's, but the differences weren't all that large... and the core natures of the two regimes were one and the same.

5/31/2012 12:09:51 PM

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