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Quote# 87417

I [heart] Genocide

Some people have criticized the Torah for being cruel because the Torah commands the extermination of certain ancient peoples, specificially the Canaanites, the Amalekites and the Midianites, including the killing of women and children.

I think that a few things must however be borne in mind.

These commandments were given by God who knows all of people's thoughts and all their future actions and the actions of their potential descendents. God knew that these people were evil, they were "bad to the bone", and the kindest solution was to kill them, for their sakes and the sakes of everyone else. Killing a baby is normally a heinous crime. However if someone would be truly psychic and would have truly been able to see the future, surely he would have done everyone a big favor if he would have strangled Adolf Hitler in his crib.

Additionally, we must bear in mind that these commandments were specifically regarding those nationalities. Orthodox Jews today are basically pacsifists who are almost never kill anyone.

jewish philosopher, Torah Philosophy 53 Comments [5/19/2012 5:58:33 AM]
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Reynardine

Babies are born "bad to the bone"?

A good God who was omnipotent and omniscient wouldn't *make* babies that were doomed to be "bad to the bone".

Evil is either, in such a construct, an essence made by "Gahd", and therefore it is contradictory to order others to commit evil to destroy it, or it is a choice, and therefore not inevitable.

Your "Gahd" is therefore evil, Sir, and it appears that so are you.

5/19/2012 6:18:01 AM

D Laurier

Your god is an excuse to kill and plunder.
Your religion is offensive to all good people because it endorses genocide, incest, slavery, and racism.

Orthodox jews are dangerous lunatics who's violence is held back only by fear of punishment.
When turned loose on defenceless Palestinians, they rape and kill with out hesitation.

The sooner your cult reforms itself, the better.

5/19/2012 6:24:03 AM

Cy

So every single one of the Canaanites, Amalekites and Midianites, and their potential descendents, was irredeemably evil, without exception? Hmm, that's mighty convenient.

One person, or a small group of people, being so bad that killing them was the lesser of two evils I can certainly buy. (Although I'm sure an omniscient God could have found an even better way way. Kidnapping baby Adolf and giving him to a family which believed in the values of tolerance and equality would have had the same effect without the infanticide...) An entire nationality? No way.

5/19/2012 6:29:57 AM

mborok

D Laurier: the Ultra-Orthodox in Israel refuse to serve in the army and essentially do not recognize the validity of the State of Israel. Some of them side with the Palestinians and are anti-Zionist.

The notion that an entire nation, such as the Canaanites, could be completely and irredeemably evil is one of the parts of the Bible that defies common sense and daily experience. Fortunately, historians believe none of it ever happened, that the whole story is a nation-building myth from a time when violent conquest was considered a valid claim to a piece of territory.

5/19/2012 6:31:13 AM

Filin De Blanc

God could see these people's future actions? So much for free will, then, which makes it God's own fault for programming these people to be evil in the first place.

5/19/2012 6:39:20 AM

John

These commandments were given by God who knows all of people's thoughts and all their future actions and the actions of their potential descendents.

Actually, the people who did the killing claimed it was God's commandment. What would you expect them to say? We wanted the land, so we just went in there and slaughtered everybody and took it? Almost everyone in the history of mankind has claimed some sort of divine permission to kill people and take over their territory.

5/19/2012 6:39:43 AM

Raised by Horses

You fail philosophy forever. Why don't you take up NASCAR or something?

5/19/2012 6:40:03 AM

Creedence Leonore Gielgud

"Orthodox Jews today are basically pacsifists who are almost never kill anyone."

I think I read somewhere that they did 9/11. It was on the Internet. On Encyclopedia Dramatica, so it's probably true, unless it isn't.

5/19/2012 6:41:21 AM

OhJohnNo

What a monster.

5/19/2012 6:48:49 AM

Brendan Rizzo

Ooh, Torah fail. Half the time it was Moses acting on his own who ordered the genocide. So your excuse about being able to see the future holds no water. At least real Jews, who were once subjected to genocide by that same reasoning (that all Jews were rotten to the core) understand the immorality of the argument.

Also, Jewish Philosopher, you are forgetting something. God is supposed to be both omniscient and omnipotent. Surely He would be able to cure the Canaanites or Amalekites of their evil ways by having the Jews teach them morality or assimilate them into Jewish culture if necessary. (And yes, Converted-Jewish Philosopher, this is totally possible. Not only are you yourself a convert to what you believe is the best culture, human nature hasn't changed in 3500 years. The Europeans went from one of the most racist and bloodthirsty peoples on the planet to a continent of almost totally unbigoted pacifists within a single generation. Don't tell me the Canaanites could not have done the same if they had been educated instead of exterminated.)

5/19/2012 7:10:56 AM

Mister Spak

So if the christian god commands that jews be killed, it's good by definition because god commanded it?

You might want to rethink your philosophy.

5/19/2012 7:14:00 AM

Leighton Buzzard

Oh, it's the faux-Jew again. Asshole and idiot. I'm not sure about frummers being pacifists, either ... there are some violent nutjobs among them, and I don't even know if the Haredim can be called pacifists, exactly. True, they rarely practice violence, but that might just be due to violence being hard work, and they being bone-idle parasites.

5/19/2012 7:23:35 AM



Nothing like claiming all members of an entire ethnicity to be "evil" so that you can kill them all for the greater good




Ironic, because I'm pretty sure that something like that happened to the Jews.

5/19/2012 7:34:16 AM

Stonespiral

It didn't need to be Hitler that caused so much of a ruckus. Germany was in a position to be taken advantage of anyone who tried. Hitler just proved to be the most charismatic. I'm sure if I had access to German politics at the time just before the Nazi Party was created, I would find dozens of other candidates. So killing little baby Adolf would not have necessarily stopped a great tragedy from unfolding, it simply would have happened differently than we now remember.

Also your argument is crap on several other levels.

5/19/2012 7:55:08 AM

Extraintrovert

Oh great, this sociopathic scumbag again, utterly failing to appreciate the irony of excusing genocide by using the "excuse" that they were all evil anyway. I wish I was surprised.

@Stonespiral
Yes, thank you. The fallacy that Germany would have been just hunky dory if it weren't for that mean ol' Hitler pisses me off endlessly.

5/19/2012 8:11:03 AM

rageaholic

So God's gonna kill somneone for something they haven't done yet. Free will my ass.

Unless this guy's a Jewish Calvinist. Wouldn't surprise me with some of the rhetoric he spews.

5/19/2012 8:24:45 AM

Reynardine

Stonespiral and Extraintrovert: Post WWI Germany was ripe for someone to pop up and lead them in some direction, but it could have been a better someone in a better direction...and we ourselves, these days, walk on the edge of a knife.

And yes, I think if little Adolf had been swiped from his cradle and raised by kindly, cultured people, he might by now have been known as an architect instead of a mass murderer. Somehow, though, I don't see Eichmann as anything but Eichmann.

5/19/2012 8:28:41 AM

Tolpuddle Martyr

A orthodox Jew saying "I heart genocide"?

Yeah, there was another guy who hearted genocide Adolf somebody...

5/19/2012 8:30:24 AM

Flah

I apologize for invoking Godwin's Law, but I have to ask this philosopher the old question that this line of reasoning always leads to... If he had access to a time machine that could only go to Austria in 1889, would he use it as an opportunity to kill baby Hitler?

What am I thinking? With such a shortsighted philosophy, he'd do it in a heartbeat, to hell with the moral consequences.

5/19/2012 9:18:51 AM



By your logic, then, surely God, being able to see the future, wouldn't have created those peoples in the fiorst place if they were going to turn out to be so evil that they neeed to be wiped out. The only conclusion left, then, would be that the murdering wasn't commanded by God, but by men who wanted to get rid of those people for their own reasons.

5/19/2012 10:14:54 AM

John

God knew that these people were evil, they were "bad to the bone", and the kindest solution was to kill them, for their sakes and the sakes of everyone else.

So you're OK with Nebuchadnezzar doing the same thing to a bunch of Jewish people about 400 years later?

5/19/2012 10:36:50 AM

Papabear

Killing is OK as long as my delusion tells me to.

5/19/2012 11:05:16 AM

Ebon

Your god is a sociopathic scumbag and so are you.

5/19/2012 11:33:50 AM

Reynardine

I'd use that time machine to go grab little Adolf and bring him up right. I've even had some luck counselling the odd teenage Adolf. Little Eichmann, now...

5/19/2012 11:44:53 AM



If someone knew the future and strangled hitler rather than trying to give him a proper upbringining and education they would be a piece of shit.

You are a terrible person...fuck you and your god.

5/19/2012 11:59:19 AM
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