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Quote# 87498

I can not understand how anybody can believe this fairytale.
I studied genetics myself, but I can not buy that evolution can work. By mutations never appear anything genuinely new and certainly not completely new complex features.

It is a fairytale no matter how long time we are giving for it, and of course it has to be incomprehensible timescale so we wont think about it just buy it.
If you think about it yourself you must admit that it is impossible 1. from nothing to something, 2. a planet which is absolutely unique, 3. the diversity of the living on earth, 4. a unique human being which is nothing like any other form of life with morality, and capability of unselfish love.
There is one acceptable answer for all this and that is that everything was created by the Almighty God.
The One True God who we are able to get to know from the Hebrew Bible. And we find answers for all questions who we are why are we here, and why are we here, what happens after death, why there is death, pain and suffering, who is our hope in this life, and what is eternal life and how to receive it.


shema, Scientific American comment 60 Comments [5/24/2012 1:53:08 PM]
Fundie Index: 71
Submitted By: Karana
WTF?! || meh
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Blue_J

I studied genetics myself,

No.

5/24/2012 2:07:08 PM

Amadan

"I studied genetics myself"

"I can not buy that evolution can work"

One of these things does not follow from the other, children...

That genetics study: was it, perhaps, from one of those Liberty U "textbooks"?

5/24/2012 2:09:13 PM

Filin De Blanc

Watching X-Men does not count as studying genetics.

5/24/2012 2:12:46 PM



May I be cynical for a bit? I hope you don't mind, but with shema's latest barrage of unambitious, sordid fulminations, I can't resist the urge to make a few cynical comments. Instead of focusing on why shema's execrations carry multiple connotations, ranging from the boisterous (they create a snarky world of guilt and shame) to the blowsy (they shift blame from those who benefit from oppression to those who suffer from it), I would like to remind people that shema consumes, infests, and destroys. He lives off the death and destruction of others. For that reason alone we need to comment on a phenomenon that has and will continue to bring discord, confusion, and frustration into our personal and public lives. To what consequences this leads can be seen from a few simple considerations. First of all, he either is or elects to be ignorant of scientific principles and methods. Shema even intentionally misuses scientific terminology to use threats of fiscal harm to coerce arrogant galoots into driving us into a state of apoplexy.

You'd think that someone would have done something by now to thwart shema's plans to trick academics into abandoning the principles of scientific inquiry. Unfortunately, most people are quite happy to "go along to get along" and are rather reluctant to give the needy a helping hand as opposed to an elbow in the face. It is imperative that we inform such people that shema's salacious theatrics are a locomotive of pharisaism. We need to get off that train as quickly as possible; the tracks lead straight to Hell. Personally, I would much rather be on a train in which the passengers recognize that shema has—not once, but several times—been able to give lunatics control of the asylum without anyone stopping him. How long can that go on? As long as his improvident, lecherous sentiments are kept on life support. That's why we have to pull the plug on them and enhance people's curiosity, critical acumen, and aesthetic sensitivity.

If we fail to find the common ground that enables others to counteract the subtle but pervasive social message that says that shema is God's representative on Earth then all of our sacrifices will be as forgotten as the sand blowing across Ozymandias's dead empire. The "decay of that colossal wreck," as the poet Shelley puts it, teaches us that shema accuses me of being lazy whenever I state that bettering the world is apparently the last item on his "to do" list. All right, I'll admit that I have a sharp tongue and sometimes write with a bit of a poison pen, but the fact remains that the one thing that's central to all of shema's infernal, lethargic announcements is a desire to delude and often rob those rendered vulnerable and susceptible to shema's snares because of poverty, illness, or ignorance. I call this the New Propagandism. The old propagandism was concerned only with issuing a flood of bogus legal documents. Although that was bad enough, we need to look beyond the most immediate and visible problems with shema. We need to look at what is behind these problems and understand that I have to laugh when shema says that his plaints will spread enlightenment to the masses, nurture democracy, reestablish the bonds of community, bring us closer to God, and generally work to the betterment of Man and society. Where in the world did he get that idea? Not only does that idea contain absolutely no substance whatsoever, but he recently got caught red-handed trying to prosecute, sentence, and label people as iscariotic wankers without the benefit of any evidence whatsoever. Well, surprise, surprise, surprise, as Gomer Pyle would say.

Shema is entirely ill-tempered. We all are, to some extent, but he sets the curve. He doesn't use words for communication or for exchanging information. He uses them to disarm, to hypnotize, to mislead, and to deceive.

Shema's inclinations will come back to bite us in the behind before long. Let me rephrase that: shema has been treating anyone who doesn't agree with him to a torrent of vitriol and vilification. That's just a tiny facet of what all of us will face if we let him deny minorities a cultural voice. His goal is to replace our natural soul with an artificial one. How tendentious is that? How whiney? How violent? Someone once said to me, "Compassion and moral principle are not the main motives for shema's actions." This phrase struck me so forcefully that I have often used it since.

I like to think I'm a reasonable person but you just can't reason with chthonic fraudsters. It's been tried. They don't understand, they can't understand, they don't want to understand, and they will die without understanding why all we want is for them not to talk about you and me in terms that are not fit to be repeated. The success of shema's litanies relies upon the average voter not knowing whether our nation has gone communist, socialist, fascist, or merely insane. An equal but opposite observation is that shema says that he wants to make life better for everyone. Lacking a coherent ideology, however, shema always ends up crafting propaganda that justifies advocating measures that others criticize for being excessively sullen.

I have a message for shema. My message is that, for the good of us all, he should never meddle in everyone else's affairs. He should never even try to do such an effrontive thing. To make myself perfectly clear, by "never" I don't mean "maybe", "sometimes", or "it depends". I mean only that we need to let shema know, in no uncertain terms, that it can plausibly be surmised that he is the devil incarnate. Unfortunately, reaching that simple conclusion sometimes seems to be above human reason. But there is a wisdom above human, and to that we must look if we are ever to discuss the programmatic foundations of shema's depraved theories in detail. I challenge all of the inconsiderate schmoes out there to consider this: I have a dream, a mission, a set path that I would like to travel down. Specifically, my goal is to lead shema to resipiscence. Of course, as he matures emotionally he'll eventually grow out of his present way of thinking and come to realize that his hijinks are more than just self-serving. They're a revolt against nature.

Shema is reluctant to resolve problems. He always just looks the other way and hopes no one will notice that while we do nothing, those who force us to adopt rigid social roles that compromise our inner code of ethics are gloating and smirking. And they will keep on gloating and smirking until we protect innocent, little children from treacherous heresiarchs like him. He is not as mutinous or crapulous as you might think. He's more so. On a completely different tack, you should be sure to let me know your ideas about how to deal with shema. I am eager to listen to your ideas and I hope that I can grasp their essentials, evaluate their potential, look for flaws, provide suggestions, absorb feedback, suggest improvements, and then put the ideas into effect. Only then can we carve solutions that are neither crabby nor contemptuous.

You, of course, now need some hard evidence that the chief difficulty in writing about shema is that his uncompanionable blanket statements have strengthened domestic and international fears that he will thrust all of us into scenarios rife with personal animosities and petty resentments. Well, how about this for evidence: I want to exemplify the principles of honor, duty, loyalty, and courage. That may seem simple enough, but shema claims to have turned over a new leaf shortly after getting caught trying to clear-cut ancient forest lands. This claim is an outright lie that is still being circulated by shema's lackeys. The truth is that shema's precepts are geared toward the continuation of social stratification under the rubric of "tradition". Funny, that was the same term that his cringers once used to send the wrong message to children. To pick an obvious but often overlooked example, shema keeps saying that elected national governments are not accountable to their own people. I suggest taking such statements with a grain of salt because I, for one, have a hard time reasoning with people who remain calm when they see shema demonizing and penalizing people who find success on the road to happiness.

Let me back up a little: shema treats people as objects. Yes, I could add that we can and we must protect ourselves by any means necessary against the noxious bestiality of scummy ogres, but I wanted to keep my message simple and direct. I didn't want to distract you from the main thrust of my message, which is that rather than attempting to work out his disagreements with others, shema commonly turns to his friends tapinosis and meiosis, calling his opponents "obnoxious grizzlers", "volage-brained slobs", or even "argumentative pikers". I find that rather sad, primarily because if you don't think that shema can't relate to anyone other than effete knee-biters, then you've missed the whole point of this comment. I strive to be consistent in my arguments. I can't say that I'm 100% true to this, but shema's frequent vacillating leads me to believe that he once tried to agitate for indoctrination programs in local schools. If you consider this an exception to the rule then you obviously don't understand how shema operates. I hope, however, that you at least understand that he says that there is an international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. But then he turns around and says that exclusivism is the catholicon for all the world's ills. You know, you can't have it both ways, shema. Let me close by reminding you that the statements I made about shema in this comment are in earnest. I will not equivocate. I will not excuse. I will not retreat a single inch. And I will be heard.

5/24/2012 2:23:08 PM

anevilmeme

Whenever a fundie claims to have studied I tend to be very skeptical.

5/24/2012 2:43:45 PM

Mister Spak

"I studied genetics myself, but I can not buy that evolution can work. By mutations never appear anything genuinely new and certainly not completely new complex features. "

Reading answers in genesis is not studying genetics.

If you really studied genetics you would know mutations have produced genuinely new and completely new complex features.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02AMSjO1C4A

5/24/2012 2:47:27 PM

TheReasonator

"By mutations never appear anything genuinely new"

If by "genuinely new" you mean it is made up entirely of new things then you're right.

Everything new is a new combination of old things. At the most basic level everything is just clouds of quarks interacting together.

It doesn't require "Goddidit!"

5/24/2012 3:03:13 PM

dynaboyj

Okay, so apparently, because evolution doesn't work...YHWH must have created the world?

You know, there are other creation myths too. Besides, creationism has nothing to do with evolution, it's just distorted to make it seem there's a debate. Creationism deals with abiogenesis; evolution deals not with the beginning of earth or life, but with how nature changed over time.

5/24/2012 3:20:53 PM

Alencon

You studied genetics? Based upon the rest of your warble I'm surprised you can spell genetics.

5/24/2012 3:26:43 PM

Old Viking

Fundies call this persuasive incoherence.

5/24/2012 3:26:58 PM

checkmate

I can not understand how anybody can believe this fairytale.

Having first read that sentence alone, I agreed. I thought schema (= 'listen' in Hebrew, I think) was talking about the Bible.

Then I read on.

The rest goes into the category of "I don't want to believe, no matter what you say, so I can believe my own goofy crap."

5/24/2012 3:29:36 PM

Dark_Lord_Prime

"And we find answers for all questions who we are why are we here, and why are we here, what happens after death, why there is death, pain and suffering, who is our hope in this life, and what is eternal life and how to receive it."

And from the "Just So" stories I read as I child, I know how the leopard got his spots, how the tiger got his stripes, and how the giraffe got his long neck.

5/24/2012 3:30:28 PM

Karana

"And we find answers for all questions who we are "- We are a member of the species Homo sapiens sapiens.

"and why are we here, ".We simply exist and are conscious of our existence.That is all.

"what happens after death," There is no evidence that we do anything but stop being alive. Once our brain and body is dead, everything that we were is gone.

"why there is death,"
There are telomeres on the end of our chromosomes. With each cell replication, these telomeres get shorter.After a point, our cells cannot replicate anymore, and we will die of old age.The same occurs with most other organisms. Other deaths are caused by heart failure, trauma, cancer, etc.

" pain and suffering,"
We have the capability for feeling pain due to our nervous system and can suffer because of this and our emotions.

"who is our hope in this life,"
There's a who for everyone? People can get hope from lots of different people and things.

and what is eternal life and how to receive it."
There is no evidence for that occuring or even being possible.


Are those satisfactory answers for you?
No, probably not. You prefer delusion.

5/24/2012 3:35:18 PM

Philbert McAdamia

"And we find answers for all questions who we are why are we here, and why are we here,

Yes, not only will the book tell us why we are here, but more importantly; why we are here. From the Department of redundundancy Department.

5/24/2012 3:57:04 PM

LAchlan

I can not understand how anybody can believe this fairytale.

Here's another instead.

5/24/2012 4:12:07 PM

Giveitaday

I can not understand how anybody can believe this fairytale.

Evolution is simply not a matter of belief. That evolution occurs is an incotravertible fact that has been and can be observed. To suggest that one must "believe" in observable facts is akin to saying that you "believe" the sky is blue, rather than just looking out your fucking window!

I studied genetics myself,

Oh, so are we just supposed to "believe" that too?

but I can not buy that evolution can work

So how would you care to explain the vast body of observed evidence that attests to the fact that evolution occurs? Magic man did it?

I think you have a flawed understanding of evolution. That evolution occurs is an established fact with a truly immense body of evidence, the Theory of Evolution is not a theory that evolution occurs, it's a theory about how evolution occurs, which is something you would expect a person who had "studied" genetics would not only be aware of, but would also understand.


By mutations never appear anything genuinely new and certainly not completely new complex features

Okay, but evolutionary theory neither claims nor suggests that a single mutation would result in anything new or complex, which... once again... is something that someone who had "studied" genetics would most certainly be aware of.

It is a fairytale no matter how long time we are giving for it, and of course it has to be incomprehensible timescale so we wont think about it just buy it.

The only people who find the evolutionary timescale "incomprehesible" are young earth creationists.

If you think about it yourself you must admit that it is impossible

And "magic man did it" is somehow more plausible?

1. from nothing to something

Not a claim of evolutionary theory.

2. a planet which is absolutely unique

As compared to what? Your comprehensive knowledge of trillions of planets orbiting billions of stars? Moreover are not all planets unique? And last but not least... Not a claim of evolutionary theory, again.

3. the diversity of the living on earth

Which evolutionary theory explains quite well.

4. a unique human being which is nothing like any other form of life with morality, and capability of unselfish love.

So would you care to explain how you have knowldege of the complete lack of morality in species you can't communicate with? As for unselfish love, I don't believe such a thing exists.

There is one acceptable answer for all this and that is that everything was created by the Almighty God.

And which "Almighty God" would that be?

The One True God who we are able to get to know from the Hebrew Bible.

Would that be the jewish "god", or the christian "god"? What about the potestant "god", the catholic "god", or the orthodox "god"? Why not the muslim "god" or the mormon "god"? What about the thousands of other "Almighty One True God's" that humans have worshipped and died for over thousands of years? I find it unbelievibly convenient that your "god" is the real 'god' while all this multiplicity of other gods are not.

And we find answers for all questions who we are why are we here, and why are we here, what happens after death, why there is death, pain and suffering, who is our hope in this life, and what is eternal life and how to receive it.

"Magic man did it" has not, is not, and will never ever be either an answer or an explination for anything... ever. It's a cop out, it's mental midgetry for the uncurious and uninformed, it's a fairytale for those unable, or even more contemptible, unwilling to accept reality on reality's terms.

5/24/2012 4:17:04 PM

Hoplite

"I studied genetics myself"

"I can not buy that evolution can work"

This is called "non sequitur." Translated, "it does not follow" - the logic falls down.

It is one thing to be agnostic and wonder about these: "1. from nothing to something, 2. a planet which is absolutely unique, 3. the diversity of the living on earth, 4. a unique human being which is nothing like any other form of life with morality, and capability of unselfish love."

1, 2, 3 can be shown by cosmology and astrophysics. 4 requires a leap of faith based on no evidence whatsoever. In other words, a decision is made emotionally, and not by logic and reason. These type of people need to study the facts objectively, without interposing subjectiveness. Just because you would like it to be so does not make it a fact.

5/24/2012 4:21:22 PM

Extraintrovert

Fortunately, your personal incredulity is irrelevant to reality. Your incessant clinging to your interpretation of a millennia-old collection of mythology doesn't make the facts any less real, nor the overwhelming evidence supporting evolution any less present. You fail at reality, science and basic reasoning, and I hope to all the deities I don't believe in that whatever children you have manage to turn out smarter than you.

5/24/2012 5:18:51 PM

MK

Re: #1406546

WTF

5/24/2012 6:10:56 PM

checkmate

@MK

#1406546's text is bot generated. Just google portions of it and you'll see. There are websites that generate texts like that. You just plug in a name (here "shema"), and a text bot does the rest.

5/24/2012 6:38:08 PM

elphada

I've studied the bible and am neither prophet nor deity. Gregor Mendel is laughing his ass off. No my dear...he is not a biblical character.

@1406546: That is an ass whooping and bitch slap all in one.

edit: well crap..but it still smacks the moe-ron around.

5/24/2012 7:14:13 PM

Raised by Horses

"I studied genetics myself.."

Ah, yes. The old "I was so and so myself once" gambit. No more convincing today than the day it was conceived. Try again.

5/24/2012 7:32:38 PM



"By mutations never appear anything genuinely new and certainly not completely new complex features."
First of all, that's gramatically incorrect. Also, genuinely new features NEVER occur. All structures except for individual cells are a variant of another structure. I could explain further, but it would take way too long.

5/24/2012 7:49:14 PM

Percy Q. Shunn

I can not understand how anybody can believe this fairytale.

LMFAO! That's funny, I was just thinking the same thing about christianity!

5/24/2012 8:59:53 PM

Canuovea

Capable of unselfish love, eh?

A question for the philosophers, I think, and far from proven.

5/24/2012 10:03:48 PM
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