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Quote# 8791

[On why he bans almost all atheists after a single post on his forum.]

I have to leave at least one atheist on unbanned. People are not banned for putting forth their best effort, but they are banned, as they ought to be, for being belligerent and obstinate in their pride. This explains what happened to those before you who failed. Though you certainly have your pride like Satan that keeps you separated from Jesus and hellbound, some mercy is helpful here towards you.

Troy, Biblocality 316 Comments [12/28/2005 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 6
WTF?! || meh

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A Friend

David B.,

All of your charts are wrong, and you can't find anything in what I said that would cause you to draw your charts. The original chart remains the correct one:



Replace "global conscience" with child sacrifices per capita with the lower number higher up on the chart.

Why do you persist in drawing the chart incorrectly? even after it was already explained to you your error.

None of your charts fit. Child sacrifices can't go negative and do not abruptly hit zero, so your charts C & D are useless. With time along the horizontal axis, A & C show a creation, which does not help your beliefs.

With time continuing on the horizontal axis, your charts B & D fail because they indicate an ever increasing speed into the past to a slower rate to the present. That would not be an exponential increase in conscience of getting better faster. I am glad that by the grace of God as we move forward there is an exponential improvement in conscience, not decreasing improvement.

Hence, there is only one chart that works. The one I gave you originally. Accept the truth, for the truth shall set you free.

This is God's design. Embrace it and receive Jesus as your Uncreated Creator, Lord and Savior!

For those who don't understand why some try to fight the exponential increase in conscience, it is because it shows there is a Creator who created. The exponential progression in conscience disallows an eternity of the past of cause and effects, because you would not still be sinning by now having been derived from the past. Therefore, the only possibility is the uncreated created. This proves the Creator exists and He is uncreated. Know that He is God of the Bible: the Trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit, for none can compare to Christ.

10/1/2007 5:11:19 PM

David B.

“When I say child sacrifices can't go negative, then you draw a chart that goes negative and say this is drawn based off of what I said, how do you reconcile your contradiction? I never said what you misperceived in what I said at all.”

Actually, you said that decline in child-sacrifices is exponential and that the fall from 1000 BC to ‘0’ BC was steeper than that from 2000 BC to 1000 BC. I have analysed this and found that any exponential curve that both decreases over time and gets steeper with time invariably go negative. As going negative is your criteria for a curve being wrong, I conclude that there was no exponential decline in child sacrifices.

I have shown that the contradiction is yours. The exponential decline you claim happened, did not; because if it had the trend would always lead to negative child sacrifices.

“Let us be grateful that to be saved you don't have to know all those formulas or even verify they mathematical correct.”

Unfortunately, your statements are not mathematically correct, since they lead to a contradiction. The problem here is that the mathematical consequences of your statements lead to a conclusion you do not want; so you reject the conclusion. Mathematics does not care what you want, and the math will always give the same conclusion.

“This problem does not exist in the chart I have given you. That's the difference.”

Except you have never given a chart showing child sacrifices growing less, exponentially and at an increasing rate, that never goes zero. You have posted a chart of something else that does not show child sacrifices, or even a decline, and have said that this can somehow be twisted into your mythical curve.

I notice that you have not made those changes yourself, and I suspect this is because you know you cannot.

10/2/2007 6:40:28 AM

David B.

We start with the following comment:

#311065: “You don't need numbers listened; all you need know is it was prevalent before, and today virtually non-existent. Such non-existence can not be arrived at by a linear equation but requires an exponential improvement.”

So we are told the change in child sacrifices is exponential, hence it has the general formula:



But more than that, we are also told that child sacrifices are declining, hence we can also say:



As ‘C’ is a constant, its presence on both sides of the inequality is superfluous so:



Now this inequality holds true only if A<0 and M>0, or A>0 and M<0, but does not allow us to determine which it is.

However, we were also told the following:

#312690: Yes, it is true, from 2000 to 1000 BC child sacrifices dropped slowly. Then from 1000 BC to 0 BC they dropped more rapidly.

So we also know something about how the curve’s gradient changes over time. Well the gradient is given by the formula’s differential, so first we must work that out. For clarity, let’s derive it ‘long-hand’ using the chain-rule.

First we rewrite the formula to express it more simply in terms of another function ‘u’, we also express ‘u’ in terms of a third function ‘v’ to simplify its differentiation, so:



Now we have our differential equation, we can construct a similar inequality for the gradient as we did above for the value:



Now this inequality does not hold true if A<0, so we can determine that the trend in child sacrifices is tracked by the formula:



Where M<0 and A>0.

Note that whatever the value of C chosen, there is a point where |M|.e^(A.t) will become larger (when t = ln(C/|M|)/A) than C and the value of X, and hence child-sacrifices, inevitably go negative.

However we are also told:

#315341: “sacrifices can't go negative”

Hence any exponential curve with the properties described must be rejected as it will inevitably go negative. Therefore there is no exponential decline in child sacrifices with the properties described. Child sacrifices have not declined exponentially.

QED.

10/2/2007 6:40:50 AM

David B.

A Friend wrote:

#310208: “Many tims has it already been said one example of an exponential pogression in conscience is today child sacrifices are not so prevalent in society as they once were”

#310999: ”You don't need to publish numbers, except know in historical documents it was significant then and is not the case now. […]If the drop of child sacrifices was linear and not exponential, then there would still be quite a significant number of child sacrifices now, but you don't find that to be the case.”

#311065: “You don't need numbers listened; all you need know is it was prevalent before, and today virtually non-existent. Such non-existence can not be arrived at by a linear equation but requires an exponential improvement.”

#312648: “In the exponential progression of conscience and drop in child sacrifices it is not just two points you assumed, but there has been a slow drop from 2000 to 1000 BC, steeper from 1000 to 0 BC and for the last 2000 years virtually straight up.”

#312690:Yes, it is true, from 2000 to 1000 BC child sacrifices dropped slowly. Then from 1000 BC to 0 BC they dropped more rapidly. Then from 0 BC to today it is vertually a curve straight up or straight down depending on which end of the line you are looking from.”[/i]

It is now possible to reconstruct ‘A Friend’s graph. The graph starts at some point in the past (called ‘then’) where child sacrifices where ‘prevalent’ (i.e. some large number). Between 2000 BC and 1000 BC there is a slow drop, between 1000 BC and ‘0’ BC there is a steeper drop, until at ‘now’ the figure is virtually non-existent (i.e. close to zero), the curve is also known to be exponential.



The exponential progression in this case is from a slow drop, to a steeper drop (-2000 to -1000), to a still steeper drop (-1000 to 0), to a still even steeper drop (0 to 1000), to a still even more steeper drop (1000 to 2000), at which point the child sacrifices are ‘virtually non-existent’. Clearly such a trend must soon cross into negative numbers of child sacrifices.

A Friend wrote:

#311319: “If the linear drop is too steep it will go negative which is impossible, hence it is not linear considering the virtually zero child sacrifices today, yet there is still some remnant of it.”

#312648: “And any fractional child that never over time becomes one child can be deemed as no more child sacrifices unlike your linear theory where you have negative child sacrifices. That's impossible.”

#314057: ”you can't have negative child sacrifices”

#314059: ”Your straight line though goes straight down into negative child sacrifices. That's impossible.”

#314401: “obviously it can't go negative”

#315341: “sacrifices can't go negative”

#316683: “Your concave chart is wrong since child sacrifices can't go negative”

The exponential trend described by AF is, in his own words, impossible.

[size=8]
#310208: http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/comments.aspx?id=8791&page=3
#310999: http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/comments.aspx?id=8791&page=4
#311065: http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/comments.aspx?id=8791&page=4
#311319: http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/comments.aspx?id=8791&page=5
#312648: http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/comments.aspx?id=8791&page=9
#312690: http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/comments.aspx?id=8791&page=9
#314057: http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/comments.aspx?id=8791&page=13
#314059: http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/comments.aspx?id=8791&page=13
#314401: http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/comments.aspx?id=8791&page=13
#315341: http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/comments.aspx?id=8791&page=16
#316683: http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/comments.aspx?id=8791&page=16
[/size]

10/2/2007 6:41:27 AM

A Friend

David B.,

To say the decline or drop in child sacrifices is exponential from 1000 to 0 AD in a more dramatic fashion than before, is not to say it can go negative (obviously child sacrifices can't go negative because you can't have a negative person), so therefore, your chart depictions remain wrong. Why not look at the chart I continue to show you which shows an exponential decrease in child sacrifices, but also can never go negative?

It doesn't matter how many times you don't want to replace "global conscience" on the chart I gave you you with "child sacrifices" with the lower number higher up on the chart. The fact remains, global conscience increase matches with reduction in child sacrifices at an exponential rate.

There is no contradiction between an exponential decrease in child sacrifices approaching zero but never going negative. See the chart I gave that shows this. Just know as you continue to shut your mind down, you do so because deep down inside, the reason for your belligerency is because you want to remain in your sin nature bound for hell by refusing the forgiveness of the Lord Christ Jesus. That is your choice.

Your math, therefore, does not agree with the chart I gave, then know your math is wrong, and you are getting over your head confusing yourself with forumlas. People rationalize all kinds of things; it's no different with fuzzy mathematics or any field. Since the chart that I gave you does not go negative, then your math must be wrong, because your math goes negative. Logically, therefore, know your math is wrong and you're making a mistake along the way by bearing false witness. That's why ALL your chart depictions are wrong.

Only one chart works, the one I gave you. It is the same awesome chart that an atheist produced! Praise the Lord.

Think of it this way. If an atheist can produce the chart correctly, and you can't, know that you are the problem, and you can't even agree with an atheist who at least is able to draw the chart right.

Wow!

10/2/2007 5:00:46 PM

A Friend

David B.,

All of your charts are wrong, and you can't find anything in what I said that would cause you to draw your charts. The original chart remains the correct one:



Replace "global conscience" with child sacrifices per capita with the lower number higher up on the chart.

Why do you persist in drawing the chart incorrectly? even after it was already explained to you your error.

None of your charts fit. Child sacrifices can't go negative and do not abruptly hit zero, so your charts C & D are useless. With time along the horizontal axis, A & C show a creation, which does not help your beliefs.

With time continuing on the horizontal axis, your charts B & D fail because they indicate an ever increasing speed into the past to a slower rate to the present. That would not be an exponential increase in conscience of getting better faster. I am glad that by the grace of God as we move forward there is an exponential improvement in conscience, not decreasing improvement.

Hence, there is only one chart that works. The one I gave you originally. Accept the truth, for the truth shall set you free.

This is God's design. Embrace it and receive Jesus as your Uncreated Creator, Lord and Savior!

For those who don't understand why some try to fight the exponential increase in conscience, it is because it shows there is a Creator who created. The exponential progression in conscience disallows an eternity of the past of cause and effects, because you would not still be sinning by now having been derived from the past. Therefore, the only possibility is the uncreated created. This proves the Creator exists and He is uncreated. Know that He is God of the Bible: the Trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit, for none can compare to Christ.

10/2/2007 5:02:21 PM

A Friend

I think it is divine providence, that I didn't draw the chart but an atheist did. Similarly at the top of the 4 Step Proof page (http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/perfectproof.htm), we find more admission by an atheist.

According to pure logic, a non-believer (atheist) writes "that this calculation [Step 1] tells us that we are moving from more to less sin and concludes that since we have not reached the state of ultimate sinlessness then it must be the case that there was not an eternity of past causes and effects. The argument is deductively valid." (Arturo from think the secular playground)

10/2/2007 5:10:54 PM


10/2/2007 6:06:13 PM

A Friend

So what accounts for an atheist deducting correctly but still not accepting the truth?

Logically again it is because they prefer to remain in their sin nature and not receive the salvation of Christ on the cross to give eternal life.

Logically that is why hell exists, because some people just don't want to be saved.

It's just common sense.

I will keep telling you the truth as Peter said, "I plan to keep reminding you of these things...Yes, I believe I should keep reminding you of these things as long as I live...So I will work hard to make things clear to you. I want you to remember them long after I am gone" (2 Peter 1.12-15).

10/2/2007 6:30:08 PM

A Friend

To the owner of fstdt. You have lost. You never had a chance.

10/2/2007 6:42:02 PM

A Friend

Did you know Jesus has strength like no other?

10/2/2007 6:50:50 PM

A Friend

The Word of God has hope like no other.

10/2/2007 6:51:11 PM

A Friend

Nothing surpases God's grace and the power of His name which can lift you up.

10/2/2007 6:51:40 PM

A Friend

His unfailing love is stronger than mountains, deeper than oceans.

10/2/2007 6:52:03 PM

A Friend

Jesus can lift you up.

10/2/2007 6:52:32 PM

A Friend

His love reaches to all the ends of the earth.

10/2/2007 6:53:14 PM

A Friend

You can't beat Him, so join Him.

10/2/2007 6:53:28 PM

A Friend

Without faith in Christ how can you be justified?

10/2/2007 6:53:49 PM

A Friend

His strength is like no other.

10/2/2007 6:54:01 PM

A Friend

He reaches out to you.

10/2/2007 6:54:12 PM

A Friend

He is your hope.

10/2/2007 6:54:19 PM

A Friend

Jesus loves you.

10/2/2007 6:54:29 PM

A Friend

God's glory fills the earth, but I am not telling you anything you don't already know. You're just too afraid for self to give up self to come to the cross and place all your trust in Jesus. As the the word of Lord said, you will have to lose you soul in order to gain it.

10/2/2007 6:58:26 PM

A Friend

[size=12]David B.,

All of your charts are wrong, and you can't find anything in what I said that would cause you to draw your charts. The original chart remains the correct one:



Replace "global conscience" with child sacrifices per capita with the lower number higher up on the chart.

Why do you persist in drawing the chart incorrectly? even after it was already explained to you your error.

None of your charts fit. Child sacrifices can't go negative and do not abruptly hit zero, so your charts C & D are useless. With time along the horizontal axis, A & C show a creation, which does not help your beliefs.

With time continuing on the horizontal axis, your charts B & D fail because they indicate an ever increasing speed into the past to a slower rate to the present. That would not be an exponential increase in conscience of getting better faster. I am glad that by the grace of God as we move forward there is an exponential improvement in conscience, not decreasing improvement.

Hence, there is only one chart that works. The one I gave you originally. Accept the truth, for the truth shall set you free.

This is God's design. Embrace it and receive Jesus as your Uncreated Creator, Lord and Savior!

For those who don't understand why some try to fight the exponential increase in conscience, it is because it shows there is a Creator who created. The exponential progression in conscience disallows an eternity of the past of cause and effects, because you would not still be sinning by now having been derived from the past. Therefore, the only possibility is the uncreated created. This proves the Creator exists and He is uncreated. Know that He is God of the Bible: the Trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit, for none can compare to Christ.
[/size]

10/3/2007 1:28:02 AM

A Friend

[size=12]David B.,

All of your charts are wrong, and you can't find anything in what I said that would cause you to draw your charts. The original chart remains the correct one:



Replace "global conscience" with child sacrifices per capita with the lower number higher up on the chart.

Why do you persist in drawing the chart incorrectly? even after it was already explained to you your error.

None of your charts fit. Child sacrifices can't go negative and do not abruptly hit zero, so your charts C & D are useless. With time along the horizontal axis, A & C show a creation, which does not help your beliefs.

With time continuing on the horizontal axis, your charts B & D fail because they indicate an ever increasing speed into the past to a slower rate to the present. That would not be an exponential increase in conscience of getting better faster. I am glad that by the grace of God as we move forward there is an exponential improvement in conscience, not decreasing improvement.

Hence, there is only one chart that works. The one I gave you originally. Accept the truth, for the truth shall set you free.

This is God's design. Embrace it and receive Jesus as your Uncreated Creator, Lord and Savior!

For those who don't understand why some try to fight the exponential increase in conscience, it is because it shows there is a Creator who created. The exponential progression in conscience disallows an eternity of the past of cause and effects, because you would not still be sinning by now having been derived from the past. Therefore, the only possibility is the uncreated created. This proves the Creator exists and He is uncreated. Know that He is God of the Bible: the Trinity of God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit, for none can compare to Christ.
[/size]

10/3/2007 1:28:32 AM
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