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Quote# 88549

Slavery was attended with evils. As it existed in the South, it was not in any way perfect or utopian. But too often the real problems with slavery were not the problems we have been told about. However, as discussed earlier, Christians should be quick to notice the discrepancies between biblical slavery and that practiced in the South. These differences between the biblical standard and Southern slavery do make impossible an unqualified defense of the institution as it existed and operated in the South. Furthermore, the cruel mistreatment given to some slaves is inexcusable and truly despicable. All such evil was wicked and indefensible. When modern Christians condemn such things, however, they must recognize that they are not condemning something defended by the South. This mistreatment was reprobated by the majority of ante bellum Southerners as well. Modern condemnations of these abuses are several centuries late.

Third, a problem with slavery not yet discussed is the fact that slavery promoted what can be called a "slave mentality" in the minds of some blacks. Not everyone, as we have seen, was so affected. There are amazing stories regarding the industry and ingenuity of many slaves. Not everyone imbibed the "slave mentality," but many did. There are many complaints in the Slave Narratives which indicate this. The majority of those interviewed complain that they would rather be slaves again than to be free with all the responsibilities that freedom entails. Ironically, if slavery had not been so pleasant an experience for the majority, this mentality would not likely have such a strong hold upon the minds of some of their descendants today.

Finally, slavery gave an issue to radical revolutionaries by which they could provoke animosity against the South and, consequently, the "old order" which held sway in this nation prior to 1861. The War that resulted gave these radicals opportunity to increase the size and power of the federal Government in this nation to undreamed-of proportions. Our nation, after 1865, was transformed into a distinctly different entity than it had been before. The nation established by the founding fathers, a limited, constitutional republic, a union of free States, was no more. And the modern, messianic State which seeks to bring salvation by law, was firmly established.

Doug Wilson & Steve Wilkins, Reformed Theology 39 Comments [7/26/2012 3:43:03 AM]
Fundie Index: 51
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gravematter

Wouldn't it be quicker and easier just to write "I'm a massive racist moron" and leave it at that?

7/26/2012 4:26:07 AM

Veras_the_Brujah

It's true that many former slaves who were interviewed for oral histories of slavery indicated that life was easier when they were slaves. It is also true that all of the historians who recorded those stories were White, and it is possible that the historian recorded what they wanted to hear OR the former slave said what they thought the historian wanted to hear.

7/26/2012 4:35:04 AM

anevilmeme

@gravematter


Now that you mention it.......

7/26/2012 4:41:18 AM

Reynardine

Well, good morning, Doug, Steve. Ii'm glad you find slavery so pleasant. You'll find the tools in the shed, such as a mop, a broom, a rake, a hoe, a scrubbrush, etc. Take them and report to the overseer, who doesn't like complaints. You'll work through till sundown. Then you'll get a nice pail of scraps for supper, quite nourishing, really, which you are to eat quietly in the shed, your sleeping quarters. Sweep the floor before you lie down to sleep on it. Cock's crow, same thing happens again. Oh, and since you've got no souls to worry about, don't expect Sunday off.

7/26/2012 4:45:36 AM

Leighton Buzzard

Look, just say 'we hate niggers'. You'll feel better, and we can throw things at you.

7/26/2012 5:08:38 AM

Mister Spak

"Christians should be quick to notice the discrepancies between biblical slavery and that practiced in the South."

Except the slave practicers in the south said what they were doing IS biblical slavery.

7/26/2012 5:21:02 AM

Prager

This is not "reformed" theology: it's sick and twisted theology. I don't see Doug and Steve (sounds like a couple) lining up to wear chains.

7/26/2012 5:28:39 AM



"Furthermore, the cruel mistreatment given to some slaves is inexcusable and truly despicable. All such evil was wicked and indefensible."

WRONG! "Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh. For it is a credit to you if, being aware of God, you endure pain while suffering unjustly. If you endure when you are beaten for doing wrong, what credit is that? But if you endure when you do right and suffer for it, you have God’s approval." - Peter 2:15, maybe. 2:18?

It is entirely excusable. Cruel slave owners? God'll sort them out in the end. Don't presume to know what God wants/take justice into your own hands. What kind of Christian are you?!

/sarcasm

7/26/2012 5:43:55 AM

Szena

If anyone else is interested in how slavery was viewed in the mid-19th century South, I found a great collection of papers:

<http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/rbaapcbib:@field%28SUBJ+@band%28Slavery--Justification+%29%29>


The slave owners were, of course, just doing God's will. Abolitionists were interfering with the divine order of things.

7/26/2012 5:48:07 AM

fishtank

Can someone break down what he's saying?

7/26/2012 6:09:45 AM

dionysus

Owning another person is wrong. Period. I don't care if God himself comes down and tells me otherwise. Biblical slavery is just as wrong as southern slavery.

Furthermore, the cruel mistreatment given to some slaves is inexcusable and truly despicable.

Same thing in the fucking Bible! It says you can beat your slaves so long as they don't die in a day or two. Torturers have been able to keep prisoners of war alive for a long time while putting them through the most horrendous interrogations and your fucking Bible would allow that torturer to torture a slave to agonizing near-death. The Bible is garbage when it comes to morality!

7/26/2012 6:20:23 AM

navelgazer

Apparently:

Fundie Values = Slavery Good

7/26/2012 6:20:49 AM

Anon-e-moose

"But too often the real problems with slavery were not the problems we have been told about. However, as discussed earlier, Christians should be quick to notice the discrepancies between biblical slavery and that practiced in the South"
According to your precious 'Word of God', I could claim you as my property, and you would have to obey my orders. Without question.

...doesn't sound too nice, when it applies to you now, does it, eh Douggie-boy?

Moral: Slavery is still slavery, no matter how you slice it. It's still Evil. Therefore your 'God' is Evil, ergo he has absolutely no right to exist in a modern, forward-thinking, secular society such as the USA. 'Separation of Church and State' - that phrase exists for a reason. The last time both were indivisible, people were burned at the stake, never mind effectively kept as serf-slaves.

7/26/2012 6:27:38 AM

shykid

The problem with slavery is slavery.

Your theology needs some more reforming.

7/26/2012 6:38:10 AM

Doubting Thomas

I've read comments from these biblical slavery apologists many, many times, and they have yet to ever explain why it is OK to own another person as property.

Of course, the way many of them think of women as property, it's no surprise they'd be OK with slavery.

7/26/2012 6:48:17 AM

Titania

How convenient for the writers of the Bible, likely slave owners or beneficiaries of slavery, to know that God wanted slaves to do--shut up and take no matter how cruel your "master."

7/26/2012 6:53:03 AM



Pleasant? Slavery? Are MAD sir?

7/26/2012 7:30:18 AM

freako104

Slavery is slavery, biblical or not.

7/26/2012 7:37:09 AM

Mayhem

So, the difference between southern slavery and biblical slavery is Stockholm Syndrome?

7/26/2012 7:59:54 AM

Ebon

Two-fer!

7/26/2012 8:05:45 AM

Flah

"The majority of those interviewed complain that they would rather be slaves again than to be free with all the responsibilities that freedom entails. Ironically, if slavery had not been so pleasant an experience for the majority, this mentality would not likely have such a strong hold upon the minds of some of their descendants today."

Of all the things written here, this is possibly the most pathetically naive. The black slaves spent their entire lives being ordered around by their masters. Suddenly, with the Emancipation Proclamation, they were set free and had to make decisions for themselves instead of having the decisions made for them. It's little wonder that they had trouble coping with their new-found freedom.

They didn't want to become slaves again because that life was great. They wanted that back because it was the only life they knew how to live. The slavers and taskmasters did nothing to prepare these people for a life outside of the plantation. And so, to the plantation they wanted to return.

7/26/2012 8:28:56 AM

Meeeh

*scratches head*

I'm not sure you can find any country outside the bleakest fucked up third world hell holes were groups of people are defending and promoting slavery - except for in the US!

7/26/2012 8:29:39 AM

Anon

If that was the case, then how come none of the newly-freed slaves voluntarily returned to their masters?

7/26/2012 8:32:56 AM

Robespierre

I propose a bill that anyone justifying slavery has to be a slave for at least one little month of his life.

7/26/2012 9:14:33 AM

UHM

So… granting people freedom has made the state bigger? Wait so if we wanted to abandon the state we would have to make people slaves? And because a smaller state is freedom - FREEDOM IS SLAVERY

7/26/2012 10:43:32 AM
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