Tyrrell: These liberals are bloodless, they are just cold-blooded people. They ought to open their hearts to conservatives, frankly. In writing this book, ‘The Death of Liberalism,’ I came to the conclusion that they are dead…they are brain dead…they simply can’t look at anything that contravenes their value system, they turn their back on it…
Fischer: It’s been interesting to me in talking to liberals, and I’m sure you’ve had this same experience, the conclusion I’ve come to is that they cannot be reasoned with because logic means nothing to them, facts mean nothing to them, history means nothing to them, reason means nothing to them. They just have these very strong feelings and the strength of those feelings in their minds is all they need to validate the positions they take. So I’ve just come to the conclusion that liberals cannot be reasoned with they can only be defeated.
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They ought to open their hearts to conservatives
...
In writing this book, The Death of Liberalism,’
Call me crazy, but maybe writing a book called 'The Death of Liberalism' isn't the best way to get liberals to warm up to you.
Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the most hypocritical of them all?
Between Tyrrel and Fischer, it's hard to make a choice. Either way, the irony is palpable.
"... that liberals cannot be reasoned with they can only be defeated."
And here we have the central purpose of all this: (a) rationalise your inability to win an argument and (b) dog-whistle up some good ol' violent revenge fantasies among your not-particularly-well-educated followers.
Reich-wingers are verrrry predictable.
I think I may have been temporarily blinded from the intense glare of that INCREDIBLY SHINY FUCKING MIRROR!
@Amadan
"Reich-wingers"
You, sir or madam, win an internet!
the conclusion I’ve come to is that they cannot be reasoned with because logic means nothing to them, facts mean nothing to them, history means nothing to them, reason means nothing to them.
SNARK! That was hilarious!
I hate to come back just to give a doom-and-gloom prediction, but I believe that Tyrrell is correct about one thing. Liberalism is dead. The authoritarians will never stop waging the culture war until they win, so a victory by the liberals is impossible. Society is decadent enough that nobody cares about the steady erosion of our rights, but even without that, we would still be doomed. Authoritarianism has beaten reason many times before. The ancient Greeks, for instance, invented logic and were skeptical of organized religion, but when a certain, formerly minor, cult gained an explosive following, all knowledge of rationality was lost for a millennium, and the world once again went under religion's thrall. The way things are currently going, America will become a theocracy and start a second Dark Age. No amount of education has stopped the popularity of creationism. Likewise, racism was all but unknown until Europe conquered the entire world and rewrote history to eliminate the accomplishments of non-Europeans. Right now, China is rising inexorably, and Chinese people are known to be racist. What will stop them from initiating imperialism Mk. II? There will certainly be scientific racists in later centuries; they will assuredly be Chinese. If that weren't enough, the radical Islamists will probably take over Europe, undo all its social advances, persecute gays and atheists and send women back to the kitchen. The reactionaries are winning, and nothing we do can stop them. The current era of equality and reason is numbered.
I semi agree. Until liberals learn fundies don't have any respect for facts and logic they won't be able to stop the conservative takover. Until liberals realise they should kick fundies in the balls and then demand they apologise for being kicked in the balls liberals will lose badly.
The only bright spot I see is the rapidly rising number of atheists in the American population. If the number of fundies falls low enough there may be a tipping point where the entire fundie-moron complex will collapse.
One dark cloud here is the christian fundies will feel threatened enough that they will join forces with the muslim fundies and boost their numbers to keep the fundie-moron complex going.
Another is the corporate cons will find a startegy to maintain a large enough supply of atheist low information voters to keep the president Bushs and governor Walkers in power.
Here on the other side of the Atlantic, where we usually have more political views than just the ultra-right wing and the very-right wing, we sometimes have a hard time distinguishing between the two, as they often compete about who's further to the right.
In Sweden we currently have eight parliament parties; four in government and four in opposition. Of those in opposition, three are to the left and one is to the right of the government parties. Yes, we do have a racist, nigh-on-fascist party in parliament. Woe to us...
Merely talking about two right-wing parties seems a bit... well, monotonous, actually.
It's interesting talking to those great enlightened conservatards, why their argument to everything is either "God said so" or "It's in the bible". Such remarkable with should be preserved in rock like a fossil, but then it might not be 6,000 years old...oh yeah, it is.
"bloodless, they are just cold-blooded people"
Well, what did you expect? Jesus
IS a zombie or lich, after all.
"facts mean nothing to them, history means nothing to them"
This from the guy who claims that slavery in the US is entirely the fault of Muslims?
"Tyrrell: These liberals are bloodless, they are just cold-blooded people."
Soooooo...all that warm red stuff going into that test tube during my many trips to getting my bloodwork done was cherry kool-aid laced chicken broth, then? I had no idea I had no blood. How I manage to stay alive, I have no idea. According to these guys, I'm kept alive by devil-farts or something.
history means nothing to them
Well, if he means that liberals stick to the facts and don't opportunistically make up and revise history to fit the need of the minute, then yes, it means nothing.
When somebody fabricates a "fact" out of nothing, then no, that fact means nothing to me.
Liberals are braindead in the sense that they can't be brainwashed by greed, hate, religion, or social coldness.
Liberalism can't be defeated in the long term simply because the truth always comes out in the end, no matter how deep it gets buried in the meantime.
@Brendan Rizzo
I reject your doom and gloom and counter with sunshine and rainbows. :D
It always get's worse before it gets better. Some changes that come about are permanent. Racism, for example. It was a brutal, bloody fight (both literally and metaphorically) to get Civil Rights Legislation passed. Few dare talk of repeal with out either getting denounced or laughed at.
We will win in the long term, but unfortunately, we will continue to suffer in the short term.
"I came to the conclusion that we are brain deadwe simply can’t look at anything that contravenes our value system, we turn our backs on it"
The jokes practically write themselves.
I am sure I am not the only one but Brian Fisher, or any modern day conservative for that matter, saying someone else doesn't care about facts, reason, or logic is unbelievably mind numbing.
Rizzo, I think you need an enema, a brisk vomit, and then a few vitamins, particularly biotin.
@ Skatepunk:
That's not exactly what I meant...
I agree with you that racism probably will never be reinstated from within the West. What I am worried about is some other country, let's use China as an example because racism is not completely taboo in Asia yet and because China is quickly attaining superpower status (which I am convinced will restart the Cold War) gaining enough power to dominate the world and enforce reactionary values on everybody else. If the US declines for any reason, then a hostile nation could probably inflict unequal treaties or whatever against us. Lest you think that's ridiculous, let me point out that 500 years ago, nobody in the East would have even suspected that in a few generations they would be totally subjugated by European countries, which ultimately led to the whole idea of Third World countries which are unsalvageable.
"So I’ve just come to the conclusion that liberals cannot be reasoned with they can only be defeated."
'Listen, and understand: that Terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead! '
-Sgt. TechCom Kyle Reese (Michael Biehn), "The Terminator"
(*Is reminded of the Terminator [Arnold Schwarzenegger] looking in mirror before, during & after removal of organic artificial sclera over cybernetic eye *)
Yep, Bryan. Look into your very own Shiny Mirror. Where every day is Backwards Day. You have now entered: 'The Fundie Zone'. (*"Twilight Zone" theme plays *) X3
"So I’ve just come to the conclusion that liberals cannot be reasoned with they can only be defeated."
Now you know how I feel about morons like you. You are impervious to factual arguments. What you call "facts" is usually biblical nonsense. Those aren't facts. Global climate change, evolution, the Big Bang, those are facts backed by evidence.
You can't be reasoned with but as far as I'm concerned you should just be ignored, as in your point of view should not be taken into account by decision makers.
Oh, and Jesus was a liberal, and a socialist.
that they cannot be reasoned with because logic means nothing to them, facts mean nothing to them, history means nothing to them, reason means nothing to them.
When you start arguing from those positions, we'll consider listening to you. So far, logic, facts, history and reason seem to have an insanely liberal bias.
This guy has been watching way too much Fox news:) My favorite line is - "They just have these very strong feelings and the strength of those feelings in their minds is all they need to validate the positions they take." As heated and illogical as this guy sounds it seems like fairly typical perspective of many Americans these days. I don't understand why people are so dumb in this country and incapable of objective analysis and or deductive reasoning. Can you imagine if Socrates, Plato, or Aristotle were able to see the most powerful nation on earth 2400 years into the future? Many Americans lack the ability to reason, and I think this may be in large part due to suppression of Philosophy by religious organizations.
Wow he really did write a book you can review a little bit of it on Amazon. Some folks even claim to like it which is sad.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Death-Liberalism-Tyrrell-Jr/dp/1595554882
Tyrrell: These conservatives are bloodless, they are just cold-blooded people. They ought to open their hearts to liberals, frankly. In writing this book, The Death of Conservatism,’ I came to the conclusion that they are deadthey are brain dead they simply can’t look at anything that contravenes their value system, they turn their back on it
Fischer: It’s been interesting to me in talking to conservatives, and I’m sure you’ve had this same experience, the conclusion I’ve come to is that they cannot be reasoned with because logic means nothing to them, facts mean nothing to them, history means nothing to them, reason means nothing to them. They just have these very strong feelings and the strength of those feelings in their minds is all they need to validate the positions they take. So I’ve just come to the conclusion that conservatives cannot be reasoned with they can only be defeated.
fixed for hyper-accurate prophecy...? Even quarterback Joe Namath had a 50-50 chance of being right, when asked the question a few days before a Superbowl - about if the New York Jets would win - he replied 'I guarantee it.'
A case of (albeit subconsciously, re. Tyrrade and Fischite) reverse -projection on their part? You decide...! However, a definte (certainly literal ) case of 'In Soviet USA, GOP means nothing to history'.
'The GOP is dead '
-Pat Buchanan
'The world is laughing at us'
-Donald Fart
*singing* Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends?
Lol, sorry...couldn't resist :p
Seriously, someone should write a version of Romeo and Juliet in which one comes from a Conservative family and the other from a Liberal family.
Seriously though, why can't we just bloody get along?! I myself meet in the middle and call myself "Consiberal" (because the word "centrist" is too boring...and it implies that I'm never extreme when, in fact, I tend to think in extremes)
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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