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Several GOP lawmakers questioned new proposed student standards and tests that delve deeply into biological evolution during a Monday meeting of the Interim Joint Committee on Education.
In an exchange with officials from ACT, the company that prepares Kentucky's new state testing program, those lawmakers discussed whether evolution was a fact and whether the biblical account of creationism also should be taught in Kentucky classrooms.
"I would hope that creationism is presented as a theory in the classroom, in a science classroom, alongside evolution," Sen. David Givens, R-Greensburg, said Tuesday in an interview.
...
Another committee member, Rep. Ben Waide, R-Madisonville, said he had a problem with evolution being an important part of biology standards.
"The theory of evolution is a theory, and essentially the theory of evolution is not science — Darwin made it up," Waide said. "My objection is they should ensure whatever scientific material is being put forth as a standard should at least stand up to scientific method. Under the most rudimentary, basic scientific examination, the theory of evolution has never stood up to scientific scrutiny."

Sen. David Givens & Rep. Ben Waide (R-Kentucky), Kentucky 75 Comments [8/21/2012 3:58:22 AM]
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Aspergus

"I would hope that creationism is presented as a theory in the classroom, in a science classroom, alongside evolution,"

Better yet, let's go back to the good old days when we had students recite, "In Adam's fall, we sinned all..."

"The theory of evolution is a theory, and essentially the theory of evolution is not science — Darwin made it up,"

Looks like someone was homeschooled.

8/21/2012 4:04:28 AM

Mudak

Darwin came up with it after careful observation of the facts and the evidence. I can't think of a scientific theory that has held up to more scientific scrutiny than evolution has. Thus, Rep. Waide, would you kindly educate me on the meaning of scientific scrutiny and how intelligent design or creationism has done so? At the very least, please explain how ID can be falsified...

8/21/2012 4:14:29 AM

Passerby

Evolution is an observable fact. There are documented examples of species-wide adaptations, as well as entirely new species of animal springing into existence. Your beef is and has always been the origin of life and the human species in particular which is a theory but is one supported by evidence. Learn the damned difference already.

8/21/2012 4:18:23 AM

shykid

Gravity is also "just a theory."

Then again, these people are willfully stupid and backwards enough to believe that the "weight of sin" holds everything down.

8/21/2012 4:24:57 AM

Leighton Buzzard

Under the most rudimentary, basic scientific examination, the theory of evolution has never stood up to scientific scrutiny.

How the fuck would you know?

8/21/2012 4:31:08 AM

Doubting Thomas

Kentucky. Home to the Creation Museum and future Noah's Ark theme park being built with taxpayer funds. Proudly marching into the 18th century.

8/21/2012 4:38:41 AM

Leighton Buzzard

DP. Sorry.

8/21/2012 4:44:27 AM

JeanP

*"In an exchange with officials from ACT, the company that prepares Kentucky's new state testing program, those lawmakers discussed whether evolution was a fact and whether the biblical account of creationism also should be taught in Kentucky classrooms."

ACT is one of the tests which are used by colleges for choosing theirs students and they want them evaluated on the true science and thus the ACT company want to evaluate students on real sciences.

*"I would hope that creationism is presented as a theory in the classroom, in a science classroom, alongside evolution,"

Me too as an exemple of pseudoscience: they will learn what separe science (reason, facts) and pseudoscience (fanatism, lies).

*"Another committee member, Rep. Ben Waide, R-Madisonville, said he had a problem with evolution being an important part of biology standards."

"Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution", by Theodosius Dobzhansky, a proto-Intelligent Design (as a answer to another fundie, Abd al-Aziz ibn Abd Allah ibn Baaz, who believed to geocentrism because the Koran says so).

Evolution is an important topic in biology and is thus an important part of biology standards.

*"My objection is they should ensure whatever scientific material is being put forth as a standard should at least stand up to scientific method. Under the most rudimentary, basic scientific examination, the theory of creation has never stood up to scientific scrutiny."

Fixed it for you.

Good luck for the Kentucky students who will have problems to catch up with other students who have learned real sciences.

8/21/2012 4:56:07 AM

D Laurier

What the fuck?
I think this is the 21st century... so how the fuck can anyone be as ignorant as these two waffles?

8/21/2012 4:59:45 AM

Mister Spak

""The theory of evolution is a theory, and essentially the theory of evolution is not science — Darwin made it up,"

The myth of creation is a myth, and bronze age goat fuckers made it up 6000 years ago. My objection is they should ensure whatever scientific material is being put forth as a standard should at least stand up to scientific method. Under the most rudimentary, basic scientific examination, the myth of creation has never stood up to scientific scrutiny.

Why are we teaching it in American schools?

8/21/2012 5:13:13 AM

Meishayuri

I do not want my child learning creation theory in school as it leads to religious questions which I do not want to answer for my children. As for evolution never having stood up to scientific scrutiny, I have serious doubts that stupid people should be elected into any office. I learned through C average President Bush that no matter how many crayons you give an idiot, he'll still eat the yellow ones.

8/21/2012 5:29:33 AM

Dr. Razark

Ok, so we have two "theories", evolution via natural selection, and creationism.

The theory of evolution explains what happened, how it happened, why it happened. The "theory" of creation explains "book says goddidit".

The theory of evolution can be used to make predictions about what will happen with a population of organisms over time. The "theory" of creation cannot be used to make any predictions.

The theory of evolution began as an observation of the world, and has been constantly refined by further observation and confirmed through multiple other investigations, some of which were not even possible until a hundred years after the theory was first developed. The "theory" of creation is taken from a book of myths written thousands of years ago, and has constantly been shown to not stand up to the evidence, and has never been observed.

The theory of evolution is a theory, which is the point in science when you can say you have a pretty damn good idea of what is actually going on. I don't hear anyone complaining that "gravity is just a theory". The "theory" of creation is not a theory. It's maybe a hypothesis. It's a myth. It's a story made up by bronze age men to explain things they couldn't begin to understand.


"My objection is they should ensure whatever scientific material is being put forth as a standard should at least stand up to scientific method."

That's actually a very good point. Please let us know when you've come up with a repeatable experiment to test your creation hypothesis.

8/21/2012 6:37:21 AM

dionysus

"I would hope that creationism is presented as a theory in the classroom, in a science classroom, alongside evolution,"

For fucks sakes, creation is not science! Whether it's true or not (it is) isn't even relevant at this point. Creationism doesn't follow the scientific method and was derived by revelation (supposedly) ergo it isn't science. You don't teach Shakespeare in math class, why would you teach religion in science class?

"The theory of evolution is a theory, and essentially the theory of evolution is not science — Darwin made it up,"

All theories are made up, you idiot. It's not like there's some theory tree out there that grows scientific theories and you can pick them when they're ripe. No, they have to be invented before the concept can exist in our knowledge base. As the Theory of Evolution follows the scientific method, it is science. You may not agree with it, it could be wrong (highly unlikely) but it is science by fucking definition.

"My objection is they should ensure whatever scientific material is being put forth as a standard should at least stand up to scientific method. Under the most rudimentary, basic scientific examination, the theory of evolution has never stood up to scientific scrutiny."

150 years is never? But let's ignore even the vast majority of that time and focus on just Darwin's time. Darwin actually hesitated to publish his findings BECAUSE of the huge amount of backlash he knew it would cause. He had numerous scientific rivals that wanted to destroy his theory (as happens with any revolutionary theory) and yet he was not only able to defend it but it replaced every other idea up until that point (including Lamarckism and even creationism) and was able to become the most important theory in all of biology. Even the Theory of Relativity wasn't able to completely supplant Newton's theories (which are more practical on a small scale).

8/21/2012 6:41:32 AM

John

All those poor, bamboozled scientists who've been tricked for 150 years are now set straight by a couple of politicians reading a 4,000 year old book ...

8/21/2012 6:44:21 AM

Horsefeathers

"In an exchange with officials from ACT, the company that prepares Kentucky's new state testing program, those lawmakers discussed whether evolution was a fact and whether the biblical account of creationism also should be taught in Kentucky classrooms."

You people just don't learn, do you? You do stupid shit like this, get sued for it, and then cry "persecution!" because you did something you should have known you couldn't do to begin with.

"'I would hope that creationism is presented as a theory in the classroom, in a science classroom, alongside evolution,' Sen. David Givens, R-Greensburg, said Tuesday in an interview."

That's because 1: you're a fucking moron; 2: you're a creationist goober, or you're bought and paid for by creationist goobers; 3: you don't know what the hell a theory actually is.

"Another committee member, Rep. Ben Waide, R-Madisonville, said he had a problem with evolution being an important part of biology standards."

Well now, isn't that just tough shit. You might as well say that you have a problem with numbers being part of mathematical standards.

"'The theory of evolution is a theory, and essentially the theory of evolution is not science — Darwin made it up,' Waide said."

Fuck you, Waide. Why don't you and Senator Dumbfuck up there go get a dictionary and look up the word "theory" for me.

"My objection is they should ensure whatever scientific material is being put forth as a standard should at least stand up to scientific method."

I will personally donate $1,000 dollars to your reelection campaign if you can accurately describe the scientific method without having one of your bootlick lackeys look it up for you.

"Under the most rudimentary, basic scientific examination, the theory of evolution has never stood up to scientific scrutiny."

I'll kick in an extra $1,000 if you can accurately describe the Theory of Evolution under the same conditions.

8/21/2012 6:53:54 AM

breakerslion

You either need to talk less, or learn how to breathe through your nose. The whole time you are babbling like a three year old, your brain is deprived of oxygen and you are killing the few brain cells you have left.

Your Pappy should have warned you about wood alcohol too, or was your moonshine condensed through a car radiator?

8/21/2012 6:56:45 AM

Mungo

Can we just come up with a different word for "a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena"? Preferably one that doesn't happen to double as a synonym for "hypothesis" or "speculation" in common language.

Fundies would have a much harder time pulling this syntactical bullshit if we called it something like "the Principle of Evolution".

8/21/2012 6:57:39 AM

Gawd


I LOL'd at "Darwin made it up". This Waide fool is either profoundly ignorant or is just another liar.

8/21/2012 7:05:12 AM

Swede

Can someone inform these dolts about Kitzmiller vs Dover?
Dave and Ben, your "problem" has already been up in court, and your side lost, utterly and completely.
It's since un-constitutional to teach religion as science, ya know.

Under the most rigorous, thorough scientific examinations, the theory of evolution has stood up to scientific scrutiny every single time.
Cretinism, sorry; Creationism, was laughed out of court, and has never even put up anything for scientific scrutiny to test it with.

8/21/2012 7:08:30 AM

Anon-e-moose

"The theory of evolution is a theory, and essentially the theory of evolution is not science — Darwin made it up,"

As opposed to, say... an invisible sky fairy taking a handful of dirt and making a man out of it?



Oh no more, please Mr. Wilde, I am bereft of ribs! And as for this:

"the theory of evolution has never stood up to scientific scrutiny"

Then care to explain this?

I'm afraid that not only has Evolution undergone the most intense scientific scrutiny, and stands tall as fact, your own Constitutional law says it's Fact. And Romans 13:1-5 says you Creationists don't even have the right to think otherwise.

Evolution is proven fact. Creation is lies. We Atheists are Superior, you fundies are inferior. Deal. With. It.

8/21/2012 7:11:51 AM

The Anonymous

Trying to one-up Tennessee in the Creation-Evolution "debate," are we?

Both of you are stupid ignorant politicians elected by stupid ignorant people. You have no right to be commenting on something clearly out of your comprehension, such as basic biology, much less enforcing Ancient Near Eastern mythology on students in your state.

8/21/2012 7:29:12 AM

Ebon

Evolution has been demonstrated in a lab, you ridiculous knuckledragger.

8/21/2012 7:30:16 AM

Arctic Knight

One word: Speciation.

Since these politicians probably have no clue what that is, it is when a species evolves into another species, something that has been directly observed and documented.

If you are going to insist that creation be taught alongside evolutionary biology, then let's also teach alchemy in chemistry class, and astrology in astronomy class.

8/21/2012 7:37:58 AM

SpukiKitty

I hope the ACT people didn't listen to these bozos. Didn't Kitzmiller vs. Dover settle this already? GAWD!!!!

8/21/2012 7:45:01 AM

emau99

"I would hope that creationism is presented as a theory in the classroom, in a science classroom, alongside evolution,"

I'm sure you would. Submit your experimental evidence to the same rigorous standards as any other scientific theory. We'll see how it fares, and then we'll talk.

What's that? You don't have any evidence? At all?

OK, well, thanks for your time.

"...Under the most rudimentary, basic scientific examination, the theory of evolution has never stood up to scientific scrutiny."

That's not true. However, for the sake of argument, let's take it as fact.

Where is the evidence for creationism?

8/21/2012 7:48:19 AM
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