[after a bunch of links showing that gay conversion (or cure your gay) camps don't work, followed by some roundabout arguing about science]
Again going back to the Church. Thats not what this is about. Can people just stop persecuting Christians? I know Jesus said it would be bad but geez. Thats not the topic of this discussion. My point was that perhaps you can be an ex-homosexual, and Science hasn't yet discovered that it it is wrong on that issue. If I was a an ex homosexual I would be pretty pissed that I had gone through all that work and people are telling me "it doesn't exist" So what, someone can become a homosexual later in life but it can't go the other way.
50 comments
No, homosexuals are gay all their lives. They just don't really know it until they understand what it means. And as soon as you give me evidence that Christians are being persecuted solely for their religion, then we'll help you out.
"I know Jesus said it would be bad but geez."
With this basic failure to understand lingual derivation, it's little wonder he doesn't understand homoseuxuality either.
Ugh. I've lost a friend and a (now ex-)boyfriend to this delusional, self-loathing "pray away the gay" bullshit.
"Reparative therapy" shouldn't even be legal. If it didn't actually cause harm, I'd just think it was stupid, not in need of outlawing, but the suicide rate among "ex-gays" is several times higher than LGBT people as whole, and ex-gays consistently score much lower on tests of psychological well-being. This pseudo-scientific garbage being legal is like allowing doctors to write out prescriptions for cyanide and arsenic for nonexistent "problems" like "having two arms and legs" or "breathing." Being gay or bisexual isn't a problem, and mental poison is still poison.
Can people just stop persecuting Christians?
For the billionth time, You're not being persecuted!
perhaps you can be an ex-homosexual
There is no such animal.
and Science hasn't yet discovered that it it is wrong on that issue.
And yet another fundy who thinks science is wrong when it disagrees with them. I'm Shocked, SHOCKED, I Tell You.
someone can become a homosexual later in life
Ah, the old "being gay is a choice" nonsense.
but it can't go the other way.
So you're saying a gay person can't become a heterosexual? Which is it, is it a choice or not? Make up your mind.
"If I was a an ex homosexual I would be pretty pissed . . ." Now maybe you understand why homosexuals are pissed when they are told they don't exist either. You're either gay or straight (bi- and asexual being the exceptions). You don't choose, you just are. And you're not being persecuted no matter how much it turns you on.
You wouldn't know persecution if it bit you in your fat ass, you fuckwit!
And yes, people can realize that they are homosexual/bisexual later in life, because our society is still pretty heteronormative. It doesn't mean that they weren't homosexual/bisexual before, just that they weren't aware of it or that they didn't admit it because society told them that to be "normal" you have to be attracted to members of the opposite gender. Trying to reprogram/brainwash them back into the closet can only cause harm.
Can people just stop persecuting Christians?
Showing that "praying the gay away" doesn't work is not persecution. Jesus Christ, I swear these people think that if they're not getting everything catered to them and handed to them on a silver platter 100% of the time, it's just the same as being hunted down and shot in the street.
I know Jesus said it would be bad but geez.
I don't think that Jesus ever said the tribulation would be so bad that his followers wouldn't be allowed to persecute men who lay with men as with woman.
You are not persecuted in the slightest. You just desperately want to claim victimhood without actually ever being the victim.
Can people just stop persecuting Christians? I know Jesus said it would be bad but geez.
I know! I mean yeah, Jesus got brutally whipped and murdered but at least he never got into an argument over the internet. Now THAT'S real suffering!
"Can people just stop persecuting Christians? I know Jesus said it would be bad but geez."
Oh no, the evil statistics are persecuting you.
someone can become a homosexual later in life but it can't go the other way.
Well, no. It can't go either way.
"Can people just stop persecuting Christians? I know Jesus said it would be bad but geez."
Pointing out that you're fucking wrong , particularly when it can be shown that you're fucking wrong , is not "persecution".
"My point was that perhaps you can be an ex-homosexual, and Science hasn't yet discovered that it it is wrong on that issue."
Uh, yeah. Sure thing.
"If I was a an ex homosexual I would be pretty pissed that I had gone through all that work and people are telling me 'it doesn't exist'."
You just don't seem to get it. There are no "ex-homosexuals" you nit.
"So what, someone can become a homosexual later in life but it can't go the other way."
No, it can't "go the other way" because it doesn't even go that way. You're either gay or you're not, you don't "become a homosexual later in life".
Damnit, enough with the persecution complex. Where's the graph when you need it?
Get over yourselves already. Non-straight people exist. Get over that, too. The genitalia of whoever I have sex with has nothing to do with you whatsoever.
Maybe your life wouldn't suck so much if you'd stop spending so much time worrying about what other people do in their bedrooms and start focusing on your own life.
First, you're not being persecuted so stop your whining, you ignorant little prick. Second, there is no such thing as an "Ex-gay". Sexual orientation is fixed. Third, you cannot "become" a homosexual. You're either homosexual or you're not.
YOU are not persecuted! Those Christians in Pakistan that are right now scared out of their damn minds because a bunch of Muslim men stormed their community to go after a little girl and started burning houses? THEY are persecuted!
You are just a whiny little bitch who can't handle hearing things you don't like. There is no gun to your head, there is no fire in your house, there is no mob surrounding you, demanding you be killed for being a Christian.
You wouldn't know persecution if it danced the naked fandango in front of you.
"So what, someone can become a homosexual later in life"
No. No, they can't. Can you, personally, make yourself gay? I didn't think so.
Jim: Hey, that treatment you're promoting hurts people, doesn't work at all, and the American Psychological Association says that it even vastly increases the risk of suicidal ideation.
Madredia: OMG STOP PERSECUTING ME!
It can "go that way" and back again. I have a good friend who's been married to a woman, a man, dated women for a while, and is now in mid-sex change. Still essentially the same person, and has a pronoun problem, but no sex problem.
"Can people just stop persecuting Christians?"
Yes... stop being shits and causing issues amongst others and we'll stop attacking you for being shits and causing issues amongst others.
See? Remove the cause and the "persecution" disappears...
"Can people just stop persecuting Christians?"
Emperor Galerius.
Co-emperors Constantine I and Licinius I.
i dunno, the idea that sexuality is fixed for a person's whole life has always seemed absurd to me. and i've always felt the idea that it isn't a homosexual's fault because they're born that way kind of hateful, because that implies that if it were a choice that it would necessarily be the wrong one. as if someone that chooses to have sex with someone of their own gender deserves to be treated like a piece of shit, but it's okay because nobody does. it's just a birth defect or something.
how about this, having sex with someone of your own gender isn't wrong. i can't see any reason it should be, and that's the actual point of disagreement between normal people and fundies anyway.
anyway, madredia should brush up on the saints to get some perspective on what constitutes persecution.
Well, "perhaps" you can become an "ex-homosexual", whatever that means. The point isn't even that you can't force someone to stop being gay*. The point is that that shouldn't be an issue because there's nothing wrong with it in the first place.
* I'm sure you could, with the right amount of out-and-out brainwashing. But that would be a monstrous and horrible thing to do, not that I can foresee that stopping fundies from trying.
Your sexuality, like your height, is developed from your genes, your hormones, your environmental influences among other things. What, you can grow taller than five foot six at any time in life but it can't go the other way? If I was an ex heighter and someone told me I didn't exist, I'd be pissed off too. Wait.
Please, please, please, can I have half an hour with some Christians so I can show what persecution really is. It could be videorecorded and shown to other would be martyrs so that they can distinguish between not getting their own way and true persecution.
My second point, a person who is heterosexual can have no true appreciation of what being homosexual really it. If there is a case for persecution being experienced, then it is the homosexual who suffers it - for a life time. The persecution element is in the bogus promise of a "cure". People who want to "cure" homosexuals are not sympathetic towards their victims. They are guilty of emotional violence They may even have blood on their hands from the untold number of gays who cannot take the pressure and kill themselves because of the guilt that is laid upon them.
So, all you dear Christians who feel that you need to "cure" homosexuals, look at the colour of your hands,and at the bigotry that inspires you. It would entail less guilt on your part to simply accept, and not feed the joy you take in in persecution pf gays on those who are simply not going to change because of lying promises and willful ignorance or denial of the true nature of homosexuality.
You are the whited sepulchres Jesus spoke about.
Last year in Egypt 23 Christians, who are a minority in that country, were killed by radical Muslim fundamentalists.
Here in America there are people trying to stop Christians from forcing gay people into a sexual orientation they aren't comfortable with.
Now which group here is the one being persecuted?
So Christians complain that they're being persecuted when in reality, they are simply denied yet another opportunity to exert their undeserved privilege on a group of people they hate, yet they have no problem actually persecuting people they hate. Talk about double standards. This is why they get no sympathy from me.
Oh for... They're not suppressing an attraction to the opposite sex you ass they do not have one. It is not a lightswitch that gets flicked or a learned response or an acquired taste. "Cured" gays are just abused and conditioned into believing otherwise and live an empty shell of a life, going though the motions of what they are expected to do as straight in an emotionally dead haze to fit in with dicks like you.
I'm only replying to other commenters; the word salad above is beyond me.
There is no reason to believe sexuality is absolute or determined only genetically. Yes, genetics definitelt play a part, but so does environment (in subtle ways, of course, not the fundy "gays-will-raise-gays" idea), and someone's sexuality is liable to change out of the blue. Has anyone here ever heard of Tom Robinson ? He identified as gay most of his life, and he is now married to a woman and they have children. He has faced discrimination himself from certain queer people, which is proof itself that the 'it's completely determined and that excuses it' argument has its own dangers.
Point is, no matter their sexuality, people should be able to fuck any consenting adult they want.
And I agree: Why would you insist so fervently that homosexuality is 'a choice' when you're completely straight? Closeted bi fundies strike again!
@ Felix Wilde
"...and someone's sexuality is liable to change out of the blue."
I know of no valid evidence to support this assertion. Do you? Please note that anecdotes are not evidence. I do not know of Tom Robinson, but if he is like any of the other "ex-gays" I have heard of, he is probably very well known at the local t-room or gay bar (under an assumed name of course).
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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