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Quote# 89220

If there must always be an established religion, what religion is it best to establish? I say Christianity. Not because I am a Christian and think it true, or because its tradents have built the most prosperous, beautiful societies and conquered the world. Christianity does have all those things in its favor, to be sure. But the best practical reason to establish Christianity is that alone among religions it has solved the problem that the cycle of blood sacrifice threatens always to destroy even those societies otherwise most sane. In Christianity alone the logic of sacrifice is turned back on itself: the bloody holocaust of God himself has forever obviated the death either of scapegoats or innocents. Christianity therefore provides the best chance of maintaining a high degree of traditional social order that yet leaves room for creative genius to make its contribution to the endless process of social adaptation to changing circumstances. It offers the best chance at maintaining robust and flexible societies. And only a society that manages to survive has a shot at being good.

Kristor, orthosphere.org 43 Comments [8/28/2012 3:41:55 AM]
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Table Rock

built the most prosperous, beautiful societies

Really?

the bloody holocaust of God himself has forever obviated the death either of scapegoats or innocents

Seriously? SERIOUSLY!?

It offers the best chance at maintaining robust and flexible societies.

Ok, now you have drove the crazy train off of a cliff.

8/28/2012 3:55:25 AM

Often Partisan

Because Christianity has never supported, I dunno, AntiSemitism?

8/28/2012 4:11:05 AM

Leighton Buzzard

No, there mustn't. And the rest of it made no sense whatsoever.

8/28/2012 4:12:10 AM

michael3ov

"because its tradents have built the most prosperous, beautiful societies and conquered the world"

And they did this in such a Christian way, didn't they?

8/28/2012 4:28:12 AM



" But the best practical reason to establish Christianity is that alone among religions it has solved the problem that the cycle of blood sacrifice threatens always to destroy even those societies otherwise most sane."

I'll not mention the blood that Christianity has spilt to become a dominant religion then...

8/28/2012 4:42:21 AM

Doubting Thomas

what religion is it best to establish? I say Christianity. Not because I am a Christian and think it true

No, of course not. It's just a happy coincidence, I'm sure.

My question, though, is why does there need to be an established religion?

8/28/2012 5:12:58 AM

Churchy LaFemme

Please explain how conquering is a good thing. If Christianity is such as good thing, others should see that and join voluntarily, not as conquered people.

Oh, and I can think of a few episodes in the history of Christianity that involved the death of scapegoats and innocents.

8/28/2012 5:15:39 AM

Canadiest

Stop taking credit for a social democrated society that arose by removing power from the churchs.

Crack a history book from an accredited historian

8/28/2012 5:27:39 AM

The_L

" its tradents have built the most prosperous, beautiful societies and conquered the world."

China, the medieval Middle East, the friggin' Mongols.

"alone among religions it has solved the problem that the cycle of blood sacrifice threatens always to destroy even those societies otherwise most sane."

Not only does this make NO syntactical sense, but there is exactly one religion, as currently practiced, that uses blood sacrifice. It's Santeria. They use goat blood. And they only bleed the goat a little, they don't actually kill it. I fail to see how bleeding a goat could possibly destroy a society.

"Christianity therefore provides the best chance of maintaining a high degree of traditional social order that yet leaves room for creative genius to make its contribution"

Athens. Rome. Thebes.

"It offers the best chance at maintaining robust and flexible societies."

Flexible like the Amish, perhaps.

8/28/2012 5:35:39 AM

Mudak

I call Poe. Ignoring the glaring historical inaccuracies, this person seems to have used the word "obviate" correctly.

8/28/2012 5:56:18 AM

Mister Spak

IOW christian religion is best because it the most similar to my christian religion.

"or because its tradents have built the most prosperous, beautiful societies and conquered the world."

That would be atheism not christianism. Only atheism was able to generate the advanced technology that overwhelmed all other societies.

8/28/2012 6:15:54 AM

dionysus

Christianity is that alone among religions it has solved the problem that the cycle of blood sacrifice

Yeah, all of those blood sacrificing Jains are REALLY a huge problem (Jains are nonviolent and try not to kill anything, if you don't understand my sarcasm).

In Christianity alone the logic of sacrifice is turned back on itself: the bloody holocaust of God himself has forever obviated the death either of scapegoats or innocents

Seriously, what religion still has human sacrifice? Oh, and why did your god have sacrifice in the first place if it's so bad?

And only a society that manages to survive has a shot at being good

If you're looking for raw survival, again, Jainism is probably your option, not Christianity with its bloody history.

its tradents have built the most prosperous, beautiful societies and conquered the world

Uh, conquering kills people. I thought you were against bloodshed. Plus, "the most beautiful" is debatable and the most prosperous depends on the context because while England had the largest empire ever Rome had an extremely large and prosperous empire for the technology that was available at the time. And China is the longest-lived empire of all time existing in some form or another for about 5000 years without ever completely falling.

8/28/2012 6:27:25 AM

Ebon

But you don't have to have an established religion so the rest of your post is moot.

8/28/2012 7:15:58 AM

John_in_Oz

If there must always be an established favourite TV show, which TV show is best to be established? I say 'Buffy!, because it makes no less sense than your proposal.

8/28/2012 7:29:41 AM

Arctic Knight

"conquered the world" is a good phrase to use when talking about Xianity. Xianity has conquered with the spilling of blood in order to become the dominant religion.

8/28/2012 7:29:44 AM

pete

He's almost right at the start. Christians have constructed prosperous societies, at least for the ruling class, by slaughtering the members of beautiful societies.

As for this bit: "God himself has forever obviated the death either of scapegoats or innocents". Someone forgot to tell all those pillaging Christians about that part. Crusades? Holocaust? Genocide? Any of these ring a bell?

8/28/2012 8:06:23 AM

Stonespiral

WTF are you talking about? Christians perform blood sacrifices all the time. Every time Christians call for war, or hold an inquisition, or a witch hunt, it becomes a sacrifice of lives to their god. And it still does happen today in the third world and Christians in the first world wish dearly they could get away with. Christians are all about blood and death, the death of their savior, their own death, threatening pain and torture for anyone they don't like along with the death of the world.

Why else is a torture device their preferred symbol?

8/28/2012 8:33:07 AM

rubber chicken

First, that is a fucking big "If".
Second, only in your faptasy universe is 'the cycle of blood sacrifce" even a thing, never mind a problem.

8/28/2012 8:54:10 AM

Indicible

"In Christianity alone the logic of sacrifice is turned back on itself: the bloody holocaust of God himself has forever obviated the death either of scapegoats or innocents."

You seem to have missed the last 2000 years of history.

8/28/2012 8:55:14 AM

VoiceofKane

"If there must always be an established religion"

And that is where you started being wrong.

8/28/2012 9:04:15 AM

Thinking Allowed

I wonder if Kristor realizes there are other religions that don't do blood sacrifices.

8/28/2012 9:22:20 AM

Adrian

"If there must always be an established religion, what religion is it best to establish?"

But there is no need for an established religion; as a matter of fact, history shows us that establishing a religion is a terrible idea, so the rest of your drivel would be moot even if it wasn't at odds with reality.

8/28/2012 9:30:25 AM

Oh My Dog!

You failed all your history classes didn't you?

8/28/2012 12:32:46 PM

checkmate

I say Christianity. Not because I am a Christian and think it true

No, of course not.

I say Islam. Not because I am a Muslim and think it true.

I say the Jewish faith. Not because I am a Jew and think it true.

I say Bahai. Not because I am a Bahai and think it true.

I say Hinduism. Not because I am a Hindu and think it true.

...

8/28/2012 12:59:10 PM

nazani14

"high degree of traditional social order that yet leaves room for creative genius "

Sure, that's why creative geniuses are just pouring into Christo-fascist regimes.

8/28/2012 1:15:38 PM
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