"I don't think I had really thought"
9/14/2012 3:38:22 AM
Yes because government making decisions about a woman's reproductive health is so "small government".
9/14/2012 3:39:50 AM
Filin De Blanc
"less individual rights"
Like the right to have an abortion?
9/14/2012 3:45:25 AM
Government small enough to fit in a vagina, eh?
9/14/2012 4:28:23 AM
If you want abortion, you want bigger government.
But if you want to ban abortion, you're for smaller government. WTF?
I can kind of start looking at people who are pro-abortion and say, you know, they really are ... less individual rights and responsibilities.
Again, WTF? People who are in favor of reproductive rights are for less individual rights? WTF planet do people like this live on?
9/14/2012 5:22:05 AM
Davey hasn't a clue about Irish politics. Ireland's government is generally a coalition of different parties. At present the coalition is divided between two parties - one centrist. The other (Labour) is just left of centre. Overall there is a socialist edge to all Irish government, and this is good for citizens.
In general Irish people are not in favour of abortion. They are, however, sophisticated enough to realise that a blanket ban is not able to cover all situations. Regardless of the desire to avoid abortion, people see that there are situations where abortion is the only solution to certain situations.
The problem is that special situations make bad law. A way has yet to be found whereby a law can be made that permits a middle way; abortion in certain sad, but necessary, situations as against a total ban on one hand and opening the floodgates on the other. It is a case of hastening slowly, Davey, so you can stop your crowing. A suitable formula will be worked out eventually.
Oh, and do try to learn something about the political climate in other countries. You should know that Catholic fundamentalism's day in Ireland is over forever; and its memory is execrated. Ireland sets a high value on good education, and a 12 year old student would know far more about your political system than you know about Ireland's. The same kid also would be aware of the very complicated electoral system that applies in Ireland, and understand that it is sophisticated enough to allow citizens to vote strategically to make their politic will very clearly known to the political parties.
BTW, Ireland has about 6 political parties. This allows a far better representation of political shadings than the American two party system can permit.
As to big government, it's hardly a term that applies to a country with a population of only 4.5 million inhabitants. In fact, it's totally irrelevant.
9/14/2012 5:32:52 AM
"If you want abortion, you want bigger government. "
Except if you want government out of your life.
"And I don't think I had really thought of socialism and abortion as going side-by-side until I saw the headline to this article that they defeated a socialist's bill to legalize abortion. "
Well theres your problem. Socialism and freedom of choice go side by side. Fundieism and government intrusion go side by side. You were tripped up by your own propaganda phrases.
9/14/2012 5:40:31 AM
The Crimson Ghost
Why does anyone pay attention to this nose dropping anymore? He's certifiably insane as well as a complete asshole.
And Mr. Barton-leave Ireland alone. The Irish are 10 times smarter & better than you.
9/14/2012 6:28:53 AM
As someone who is actually a) pro choice b) a socialist, STFU.
9/14/2012 6:41:08 AM
how is getting the right to choose abortion (or not choose it, they always forget that) less individual rights?
you dont even know what socialism is? do you? medicare, social security, fucking social insurance numbers are all "social" programs. america already is part socialist, you stupid fuck
9/14/2012 6:46:37 AM
And I don't think I had really thought of socialism and abortion as going side-by-side until I saw the headline to this article
Sure, why not. You've already combined Islam, atheism, communism, Nazism, socialism, liberalism, evolution, and global warming together. Might as well throw abortion into the mix. In fact, I'm even more surprised then you are that it hasn't been done yet. Never mind the fact that none of those necessarily goes together (aside from evolution and global warming both being scientifically supported) and that some of them are contradictory.
But I think it's good news for us to identify pro-abortion people with socialism, quite frankly.
Of course it's good news to you. Now you have a new talking point to beat to death. For your next one I suggest comparing liberals to Attila the Hun. There's no connection obviously, but that's never stopped you before.
9/14/2012 7:01:09 AM
So I guess you'll also want St Patrick's Day banned in the US too. Why not replace it with... oh, I dunno... St George's Day, mayhaps?
First 'Freedom Fries' (when they didn't send the Statue of Liberty back to France; and why, pray, didn't they just rename them 'Chips'? Oh yes, that's right. They'd have to rename potato 'chips' Crisps, and that would confuse too many people; oh, where would it all end?! Having to put a U back into certain words...?! [/hyper-sarcasm]), and now this.
Growing Anti-Ireland sentiments. Protestant Christians in the US out-catholicising Catholics (especially in Ireland), re. abortion. Is there no depth to the Religious Reich's depravity? How to Lose Friends and Alienate People indeed.
9/14/2012 7:13:20 AM
> Now the two words that stick out to me there are "socialists" and "abortion." It's interesting how those two things go together.
Gave you a raging pre-raging hard-on, I'm sure.
Seriously, if the headline had said "Ireland Dáil Defeats Pokemon-playing Socialist Marxist Evolutionist Feminist Environmentalist’s Bill to Legalize Abortion", it would have gone all over your pants right then and there, wouldn't it?
9/14/2012 8:47:00 AM
If you want abortion, you want bigger government.
Wait a minute - if you want the government to keep out of the abortion issue and leave people alone to make their own choice free from government interference, that means you want bigger government? What is this ... Backwards Day?
9/14/2012 9:06:31 AM
You want government so small it is in everyone's bedroom. You want government so small you make Torquemada look like a freedom fighter. Fuck you David Barton. Human Failure
9/14/2012 9:50:50 AM
"Wait a minute - if you want the government to keep out of the abortion issue and leave people alone to make their own choice free from government interference, that means you want bigger government? What is this ... Backwards Day?"
For David Barton, every day is Backwards Day.
9/14/2012 10:07:47 AM
"I can kind of start looking at people who are pro-abortion and say, you know, they really are pro-socialism, they're pro bigger government, less individual rights and responsibilities."
Ok... pro-choice are asking the Gov to BUTT THE FUCK OUT and want it to be the person having the abortion to HAVE THE INDIVIDUAL RIGHT make the choice AND take responsibility for making that choice... which leads to much less Gov interference and smaller Gov. (in that area at least)
Anti-choice want the Gov to Interfere and REMOVE THE RIGHT AND RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE THE CHOICE, meaning an increse in the amount of Gov interference and a bigger Gov. (in that area at least)
Well done Dave Barton, you are 100% wrong on everything there.
:edit; And Dave? The people who commited the Holocaust also banned abortion... I guess we should identify those who are anti-abortion with Nazis then. (unless you suddenly realised how stupid you've just been...?)
9/14/2012 10:22:02 AM
"And I don't think..."
You can stop right there.
9/14/2012 10:50:56 AM
in what alternate universe does this person live ?
pro-abortion = less individual rights and responsibilities ? how ?
9/14/2012 11:13:48 AM
Not at all. First of all, socialism doesn't necessarily involve bigger government. It could mean smaller, or no government except self-government, as the anarchists propose. Also, if you want abortion, you want smaller government, that is, less church or ecclesiastical government. What else is some self-appointed religious overseer telling you what to do with your body but government?
9/14/2012 11:20:07 AM
...people who are pro-abortion and say, you know, they really are pro-socialism, they're pro bigger government, less individual rights and responsibilities.
In shocking news... Scandinavian countries have had tax payer funded legal abortions via the UHC system now for more than 40 years and as you probably know, Scandinavia is truly a hellhole or...
9/14/2012 11:54:48 AM
There is no such position as "pro-abortio;" and the socialist countries of Europe have higher living standards than we do.
9/14/2012 2:01:09 PM
Barton playing another game of "everyone I hate is exactly the same".
9/14/2012 2:12:51 PM
It's too much to expect Barton - who is, after all, a bear of very little brain - to know about Irish law and politics, but for the edification of the innocent, a few things are worth pointing out:
Abortion is already legal in Ireland. It is legal because in 1983 one political party, anxious to gain an advantage over the others, pandered to the Catholic Church by pushing for a Constitutional amendment purportedly against abortion based on wording drafted by the Catholic bishops. As some of us pointed out at the time, the wording may have been fine by Catholic standards, but it created an ambiguity in terms of constitutional law.
A few years later, the inevitable happened and a case concerning a child rape victim made it up to the Supreme Court. The net result of that case was that the ambiguity in the bishops' wording didn't just permit the court to allow abortion in limited circumstances, it required it.
The Court pointed out that, under the Constitution, it wasn't its job to define those limited circumstances, it was the legislature's.
Our brave legislators, being like politicians everywhere, have assiduously ignored that ruling ever since. However, the current ruling coalition (pro-Catholic centrist and wishy-washy sort-of-leftish) did agree to introduce relevant legislation before 2016.
The Socialist Party bill was shot down because the Government say they want to introduce their won one, not because of some sort of rush of Catholic righeousness.
The better part of David Barton dribbled down his mother's arse.
9/15/2012 3:17:28 AM
While Communism was socialist, socialism is a wider term owing no adherance to Communism. An educated person knows this, David isn't educated enough to even lie well.
All of Western civilization is socialist, all nations that care for the well-being of their people are socialist. It's a matter of levels and implications of policy. Jesus was socialist.
People like Barton defend Religious communes and church doctrine that violates constitutional freedoms but condemn secular freedoms implemented by law. Make no mistake, Wallbuilders, the Dominionists and fundamentalist churchs employ garbage like Barton (and others) to build a new theocracy.
9/15/2012 12:32:09 PM