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As I said I grew up dirt poor. And while I realize bad things can happen to anyone, the people I saw growing up were mostly stupid, lazy, heavy drinkers, etc. In other words, not all poor people are simply innocent people who have been wronged. Some are poor for a reason. I have no problem with society providing some safety net...but is there no limit? Right now if you are poor you get
1. 100% of your income tax back, and possibly more (earned income tax credit)
2. You get to use the schools, roads, police, fire, etc. that someone else pays for.
3. We have medicare and medicaid to help you with medical expenses.
4. There are grants, loans, etc. to help pay for college
5. Food stamps if you are poor enough
6. Free or reduced meals when the kids are in school.
Just how much more should be given to people? Is there no point were someone is expected to get off their a** and do for themselves? How is it 'fundy' to realize society cannot stand if 1/2 of it is NOT producing anything...
10/1/2012 9:38:00 AM
Just curious, since so many of you are so enamored with hand outs, any of you actually financially successful??? And if you say yes, you sort of have to define what you mean (hint: making to night manager at burger king is not a big success).
10/1/2012 9:39:17 AM
@somecommonsense- I'm a restaurant owner but what does it matter what I do? Are you fishing for ad hominems? How about trying to address what people said not where they work. Oh, and if someone works as night manager at Burger King when they were just recently a fry cook or unemployed I'd call that a success. Your problem seems to be (from what I've seen of you anyway) that you see everything as absolute. Different situations can arise and those can create different outcomes.
10/1/2012 9:41:49 AM
“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.”
? Stephen Colbert
10/1/2012 9:43:16 AM
One of my favorite quotes by Colbert. It's sad when a comedian has to be the voice of reason.
10/1/2012 9:47:54 AM
Rabbit of Caerbannog"Also, not fundie. No mention of religion anywhere."
"How is it 'fundy' to realize society cannot stand if 1/2 of it is NOT producing anything..."
10/1/2012 9:55:33 AM
Filin De Blanc
"How is it 'fundy' to realize society cannot stand if 1/2 of it is NOT producing anything..."
How about worrying about the banks that actively caused a recession before the people who merely don't contribute much?
10/1/2012 9:55:46 AM
And while I realize bad things can happen to anyone, the people I saw growing up were mostly stupid, lazy, heavy drinkers, etc. In other words, not all poor people are simply innocent people who have been wronged.
You're right. And not all poor people are lazy people that don't feel like working either. Ever heard of the term "working poor"? I've known people that work 70 hours per week and live just barely above the poverty line. Unlike you though I don't use those examples and try to apply it to the entire group because I know that the situation is always on a case by case basis.
You get to use the schools, roads, police, fire, etc. that someone else pays for.
So do you. I doubt you have the billions of dollars it takes to build a highway system. Or the millions it takes to pay for a staff of highly trained police officers and fire fighters.
We have medicare and medicaid to help you with medical expenses.
Right. Because some of us have the compassion to know that people need healthcare. And by the way, despite us having ways to help people with medical expenses a common way for people to lose their livelihood is through medical expenses.
There are grants, loans, etc. to help pay for college
Right, and college is the most common requirement for getting a high paying job. I thought you WANTED people to be successful. Oh, right. Only as long as it doesn't come out of your pocket.
Food stamps if you are poor enough
Would you have them starve? Or steal food? I'd rather fulfill their basic needs then see crime skyrocket.
Free or reduced meals when the kids are in school.
Kids need food. More so than adults since kids are still developing. Besides, how can a kid work his/her way out of poverty if s/he isn't fed?
How is it 'fundy' to realize society cannot stand if 1/2 of it is NOT producing anything
More than 1/2 don't produce anything. We are no longer a manufacturing economy. Most of our jobs are in service. By your logic insurance companies are moochers because their "product" doesn't actually physically exist and so they aren't producing anything.
10/1/2012 10:12:48 AM
to address your points.
1. If a person's income is not sustainable taxing said income is going to screw people over.
2. Yeah. Thats how that works. In basically every civilized society known to man.
3. Again kind of important. Medical expenses (not to mention the actual medical issue) can cripple people through no fault of their own. Working hard isn't going to achive much if everything you earn goes towards medical bills.
4. So your saying poor people are lazy for not going out and getting and education and getting rich, But you don't want to provide any tools to make this possible?
5/6. Because it's not like people need to eat to live.
Yeah some people are just lazy. Thats life. Why punish everyone who legitimatly needs a hand for it?
Also something to keep in mind that "1/2" you claim doesn't produce anything? Consider how well society would run without them. Oh damn I need a quick meal, to bad there's no one working at Burger king to make it. Oh well Ill get something from the supermarket and make it myself. Oh right there is no cashiers to ring up my purchases. Need to travel to work? To bad theres no taxi/bus/train drivers. And I can't drive cause noone is working the gas station. Oh and why is work such a mess? What do you mean we don't have janitors any more?
10/1/2012 10:13:17 AM
"there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government"
And approx 2/3rds of them are Pensioners... most of whom worked their arses off for most of their life, paying into the system.
"My job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."
Because everyone who pays no income tax is just a shiftless bum, right?
10/1/2012 10:20:16 AM
Unfortunately, the 47% he spoke of is mostly in the Bible Belt and a lot of them will be voting red no matter what because they don't consider themselves part of the 47%
10/1/2012 10:25:36 AM
That's nice, Mittens. Now don't dally here, you've got an election to lose.
10/1/2012 10:32:06 AM
This is so dumb, the President should just have a commercial saying, "I'm Barack Obama, and I approve this message." And then just play the audio clip.
Oh, wait, he already did that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9xCCaseop4
10/1/2012 10:58:24 AM
Oi, Yanks! A cousin of yours from across the pond here! I know we've had our differences and all (we're SO SORRY about that taxation thing, although you didn't have to take it out on the tea), but please listen to me when I say DO NOT VOTE FOR MITT ROMNEY. Please, mates?
EDIT: oh, and commonsense, SHUT UP.
10/1/2012 11:04:19 AM
Poor =/= lazy
Yes, people ARE entitled to healthcare, food, housing and other basic friggin' human needs! Uncharitable bastard!
10/1/2012 11:04:32 AM
"As I said I grew up dirt poor. And while I realize bad things can happen to anyone, the people I saw growing up were mostly stupid, lazy, heavy drinkers, etc. In other words, not all poor people are simply innocent people who have been wronged. Some are poor for a reason."
Once again, all this just boils down to you being pissed that poor people aren't suffering for their audacity of not making themselves as rich and successful as you. Because it's totally plausible for every single poor person to be well off if only they just weren't lazy moochers. You are an idiot.
10/1/2012 11:04:57 AM
That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them.
The two largest "entitlements" in the budget are Social Security and Medicare, which have their own separate tax system. Is Mitt saying people who have paid into Social Security and Medicare all their lives aren't "entitled" to the benefits and are just mooching on the government's largess? Actually, it's the other way around. Social Security taxpayers have lent the government two and a half trillion dollars to spend on other stuff and give income tax cuts to people.
10/1/2012 11:21:12 AM
Sigh... when you see it written down like this.
If you take this extreme individualism to its logical conclusion, what's the point in living in societies with other people at all? What's the point, in fact, of even having a republic?
As if the ideal American was living in a log cabin and growing his own food. Making his own guns from scratch to fight the pesky injuns when they come to the homestead. Being his own doctor.
It ignores something fundamental about the kind of society we live in in the west, yes, even the Americans: An inter-dependent one. It's a fatal illusion which means he is not going to get elected, ever.
The ideology: The government doesn't give you nothing, you take it. How do you take it? By hook or by crook. By any kind of dishonesty and exploitation. Or you just inherit it, along with a right to rule.
It's an ugly vision of an ugly, ugly world, where people scramble for "success" by stepping on each other's heads to form an unstable social darwinist pyramidal hierarchy.
And the mind of a Republican presidential candidate is an ugly place.
10/1/2012 11:26:43 AM
Say to the sick that health care isn't an "entitlement", to the starving that food isn't an "entitlement", to the homeless that housing isn't an "entitlement". Then tell them that the wealthiest people in society are entitled to tax breaks, tell them that they're entitled to make money off their labour, tell them that the rich are entitled to hoard money and live in luxury off the backs of ordinary working people.
I know you'll say I'm sounding like an old commie, but come on Americans, you've been duped. You've been fucking screwed. They're using the old,admirable tradition of American self-reliance against you. They're using it to rob you blind.
10/1/2012 11:32:35 AM
@some common sense: A bit lacking common sense, you are. In America everyone can be rich as long as they work hard, right? Wrong. That is exactly the illusion you people need to wake the fuck up from.
There will always be unemployed people, always inactive people, always be winners and losers, cause that's how your beloved capitalism works.
10/1/2012 11:41:15 AM
"who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. "
<sarcasm>How dare they? Jesus would never approve of such charity.</sarcasm>
@Filin De Blanc
What I want to know is why people like this never seem to get the idea that they have as much money as a person could ever need.
10/1/2012 12:06:17 PM
47% of American are WW2 vets, Korean war vets, and Viet Nam vets... who all paid taxes for decades to have a cozy retirement.
Men and women injured on the job.
Folks who paid into a retirement plan for 45 years while working a steady job the whole time.
Buncha freeloaders all of them.
Fuck you Mittens. Go play in your litterbox.
10/1/2012 12:06:25 PM
"How is it 'fundy' to realize society cannot stand if 1/2 of it is NOT producing anything... "
Yes all those poor people who work shit jobs "produce nothing". Yeah, I'm sure. Presumably all the dirt poor workers during the industrial revolution produced nothing too!
they'll always be unemployment under capitalism, that's how the system works.
10/1/2012 12:08:57 PM
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
My job is is not to worry about those people.
I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.
10/1/2012 12:10:16 PM
Genuine, heartfelt compassion: It's what makes conservatives great.
10/1/2012 12:27:29 PM
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