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Quote# 89818

Daly: Tony, as we look at the mandate in the Bible to vote there is so much there and the Founding Fathers again were brilliant in understanding God’s design for things and the Scripture is pretty clear and really the Founding Fathers in creating a Republic based it on their biblical understanding of God’s ordination of government, didn’t they?

Evans: Absolutely, they went right to Exodus 18, how Israel was organized as a representative government, and used that as a pattern for the government of the United States. The principles and the freedom which dominates the uniqueness of the United States is drawn right from Scripture, in fact freedom started with God in the Garden, ‘from every tree of the Garden you may freely eat,’ there was broad freedom, limited regulations and dire consequences, that’s how government is supposed to work, so whenever government gets too big it gets unbiblical.

Tony Evans, Right Wing Watch 37 Comments [9/29/2012 4:38:03 AM]
Fundie Index: 40
Submitted By: Zagen30
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Passerby

Did it hurt when you rammed that spoon up your ass to feed everyone this shit?

9/29/2012 4:57:15 AM



Reaching that far must make your arms tired

9/29/2012 5:00:50 AM

markb

Exodus 18 is about delegating responsibility, something every ruler does. Nothing is mentioned about representative government. Just thought I would save others the trouble of looking it up.

9/29/2012 5:04:50 AM



From every tree you may freely eat... except this one here that contains the very concepts of good and evil, free will, all academic knowledge, and any concept that someone may be decieving you for their own agenda and personal gain.

9/29/2012 5:11:26 AM

WWWWolf

It's so good that you can find all these very carefully hidden references to modern democracy in the Bible.

Too bad the Bible has all this plainly stated support for despotism and autocracy.

But as everyone knows, what the Bible actually says is not as important as what you think it says, right?

Besides, Exodus 18 doesn't describe any kind of a democratic process. Jethro tells Moses to hand-pick trusted people to govern less important things. What guarantees do you have that one person's preferences make for a "representative" government?

9/29/2012 5:12:11 AM

Filin De Blanc

"there was broad freedom, limited regulations"

Then why do you keep advocating a government that regulates what kind of sex you can have, what films you can watch and what medical procedures you're allowed to undertake?

9/29/2012 5:19:31 AM

MK

I'd have been more impressed if he'd cited the system of government from Judges - that's at least marginally closer to the mark.

9/29/2012 5:28:07 AM

SpukiKitty

I've come down to the conclusion, when these bozos refer to the "Founding Fathers", they mean the guys from places like Plymouth & Salem, that jazz about Jefferson & whatnot are merely a smokescreen.

9/29/2012 6:12:59 AM

SpukiKitty

"there was broad freedom, limited regulations"

Yeah...all 613+ of them.

"...The Founding Fathers..."

Yeah, Cromwell, Standish, Winthrope, Bradford, Brewster....

9/29/2012 6:17:56 AM

farpadokly

"The mandate in the Bible to vote". What the hell? Even though it was written at a time when voting was literally unheard of as a political technique, except among a few people in Athens?
The founding fathers, in creating a republic, based it on historical European republics, in particular the (pagan) Roman republic. Here's the question again which these people never address: If they were such gung-ho Christians, why didn't they just adopt the Ten Commandments and the Mosaic Code as their constitution? Why in fact did they ever rebel against the divinely-ordained government of His Majesty King George III, which is expressly forbidden in the Bible?
Exodus 18 talks about judges, which is a form of theocratic government concerned with resolving disputes, it's not "representative government" in the sense that we know it. It's much further from modern representative government even than the democracy of ancient Athens.
The founding fathers didn't set up a system of theocratic dispute-resolving Judges, like in Exodus, did they?

9/29/2012 7:05:57 AM

Horsefeathers

"Daly: Tony, as we look at the mandate in the Bible to vote there is so much there and the Founding Fathers again were brilliant in understanding God’s design for things and the Scripture is pretty clear and really the Founding Fathers in creating a Republic based it on their biblical understanding of God’s ordination of government, didn’t they?"

1) Show me anything in the Wholly Babble that tells you to vote. This would astonish me since the concept was unknown to the writers, and not only that but your Wholly Babble basically says that your god puts governments in place and you're supposed to shut your yap, not complain, and follow along like a good sheep.

2) Try reading some of the personal writings of the Founding Fathers with regards to religion in general and yours in particular. Start with Jefferson. Then try Franklin. Hell, you could even read the ones who professed to be Christian and see how they bashed the fundies of their day (i.e., people like you).

"The principles and the freedom which dominates the uniqueness of the United States is drawn right from Scripture, in fact freedom started with God in the Garden, ‘from every tree of the Garden you may freely eat,’ there was broad freedom, limited regulations and dire consequences, that’s how government is supposed to work, so whenever government gets too big it gets unbiblical."

The principals were drawn from Enlightenment thinking, not the Wholly Babble.

And, by the way, I don't think you want to use the Garden of Eden as some ideal "small government" example since we all know how that supposedly turned out what with the lack of oversight on the part of the governing body of the Garden (i.e., god).

9/29/2012 7:06:46 AM

JSS

"Absolutely, they went right to Exodus 18, how Israel was organized as a representative government, and used that as a pattern for the government of the United States."

Any evidence for this, or did you just get it from David Barton?

"The principles and the freedom which dominates the uniqueness of the United States is drawn right from Scripture"

Actually, I think you'll find the First Amendment and the First Commandment differ quite greatly.

"in fact freedom started with God in the Garden, ‘from every tree of the Garden you may freely eat,’"

I would say you'd have to prove the existence of the Garden of Eden first.

"there was broad freedom, limited regulations and dire consequences, that’s how government is supposed to work,"

Except in the cases of gay rights, equal freedom of non-believers and inserting scriptural doctrines into public education, right? Pathetic.

"so whenever government gets too big it gets unbiblical."

You mean big government like when a centralized dictator takes control and horribly slaughters those who don't submit? It's all over the Old Testament bud, and it's glorified. That's that nice block of the bible you seemed fine and dandy to cherry-pick from. Again, pathetic.

9/29/2012 7:09:04 AM

farpadokly

Here's some things which actually influenced the political system of the United States: The scientific revolution, the Enlightenment, the philosophy of John Locke and Montesquieu, the history of the Roman republic, and the common law of England. The government of your country is the embodiment of 18th century enlightenment liberalism. The Bible, not so much.
"Broad freedom, limited regulations and dire consequences". Well, no. Thanks to the doctrine of omniscience, God knew all about what was going to happen beforehand, thus giving his creations NO FREEDOM. If we really had a government based on the behaviour of God, it would be a tyrannical monarchy with arbitrary rules, excessive punishments, and no appeals. Please be consistent and argue for a theocracy, because the facts just don't support the assertion that the American system of government is influenced by the Bible. It's more consistent with an absolutist monarchy like the old Tsars of Russia.

9/29/2012 7:16:54 AM

Big Jilm

So it took you dumb fucking Christians 2000 years to twist some sort of "voting" message out of the Bible?!

9/29/2012 7:37:11 AM

Frank

Excuse me? If I am correct Israel was an absolute monarchy. When the King (Israel never had a Queen (men only don't ya know) died his eldest son inherited the throne. There was no voting at all.

9/29/2012 8:00:46 AM

Thinking Allowed

Too bad the Constitution disagrees with you.

9/29/2012 8:06:11 AM

pete

Sigh...

The Buybull is never mentioned in the Constitution and the only mention of religion very clearly excludes it from any influence on governance. The Founding Fathers spin in their graves when people peddle this shit.

9/29/2012 8:19:30 AM

John

(Jethro Kim Jong Il said) "Choose able men from all the people, such as fear God you, men who are trustworthy and who hate a bribe; and place such men over the people as rulers of thousands, of hundreds, of fifties, and of tens". And Moses Kim Jong Un chose able men out of all Israel North Korea, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens."

Is that where the US Founding Fathers got their ideas?

9/29/2012 8:22:07 AM

NearlySane

Lying, stupid or a combination of both

9/29/2012 8:34:13 AM

Canadiest


"Absolutely, they went right to Exodus 18, how Israel was organized as a representative government, and used that as a pattern for the government of the United States."
@JSS
Any evidence for this, or did you just get it from David Barton?

Problem is Barton's not nearly the first to start spreading such shit. Fundie preachers and right-wingers have been pushing this Christian, Biblically based foundation of America lie for years. Robertson, Palin, Huckabee, Hovind, O'reilly, Beck and many assorted deniers of facts.

Barton however really needs to be addressed and dressed down for his ridiculous claims of evidence and historical credibility. Many real historians have to waste time revealing the many lies Barton tells under the guise of a real, accredited historian.

Barton claims the Constitution is verbatim from the Bible, he should be laughed at for the claim and not knowing what even near verbatim is. You can't even paraphrase Bible to Constitutional wording without muddying both out of context and meaning.

9/29/2012 8:36:37 AM

Canadiest

The problem with lies like this is they were easily dismissed by an educated public when they rarely appeared. Over the last decade though a network of these lies has developed. Lies "supported" by citing other liars. Dominionist propaganda.

9/29/2012 8:40:51 AM

Oh My Dog!

Disconnected from reality are we, Tony?

How can anyone who thinks this be considered sane in anyway?

9/29/2012 9:16:15 AM

Nicole

"From every tree of the Garden you may freely eat?" Huh, sounds like government handouts to me...

9/29/2012 10:40:22 AM

Old Viking

Yeah, there was a whole lot of votin' going on during the Bronze Age.

9/29/2012 11:17:31 AM

nazani14

The Founding Fathers would spurn you as one spurns a rabid dog.
(Apologies to Rowan Martin>)

9/29/2012 12:19:43 PM
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