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Quote# 89874

AUDIENCE MEMBER: You voted against the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. Why do you think it is okay for a woman to be paid less for doing the same work as a man?

AKIN: Well, first of all, the premise of your question is that I’m making that particular distinction. I believe in free enterprise. I don’t think the government should be telling people what you pay and what you don’t pay. I think it’s about freedom. If someone what’s to hire somebody and they agree on a salary, that’s fine, however it wants to work. So, the government sticking its nose into all kinds of things has gotten us into huge trouble.

Todd Akin, Think Progress 71 Comments [10/3/2012 3:18:44 AM]
Fundie Index: 35
Submitted By: Zagen30
WTF?! || meh
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Robert

So most people here think the government should be telling people what you pay and what you don't pay.

Got it.

I wonder how many of you have taken a course in basic economics.

10/3/2012 8:25:38 AM

Robert

Also, it's funny no one sees their own hypocrisy when pointing out Akin's hypocrisy.

Government telling people who they can marry = BAD
Government telling people how much they can pay = GOOD

How about -

Government telling people what they can and cannot do = BAD

10/3/2012 8:28:00 AM

Filin De Blanc

"So most people here think the government should be telling people what you pay and what you don't pay."

So you're against the minimum wage?

Indentured servitude for everyone!

10/3/2012 8:28:39 AM

John_in_Oz

Hard to tell who's crazier, Todd Aikin or Think Progress.
Aiken for his stupid comments about rape, or Think Progress for this failed 'Gotcha'. Just like "Why do you hate America", the question is an insulting non-sequiter. Aiken denies that he is making that distinction.


10/3/2012 8:42:56 AM

Noneofyourbusiness

@Robert

No, we're against it being legal to discriminate in what you pay. Paying a man and a woman differently for the same work is unacceptable, as is paying a black person and a white person differently. If you think it's hypocritical to support both pay equality and marriage equality, there's a serious flaw in your logic.

10/3/2012 9:06:29 AM

Noneofyourbusiness

The government has a responsibility to protect workers from discrimination. Employers are not ubermensch who have a right to walk all over other people.

10/3/2012 9:17:50 AM

freako104

Including the woman's uterus Todd? You want government there. You want small government in increments. And large government to suit your own needs

10/3/2012 9:22:12 AM

The Crimson Ghost

Hey Robert-how much do you make, roughly? Have you ever had to work a really crappy job or struggle to make ends meet? Somehow I doubt it.

I agree with you about the government not interfering with anyone's lives. But marriage is a completely private matter & has NO effect whatsoever on anyone other than the 2 parties & does not damage us as a whole. But not being paid enough to support yourself or your family DOES. It leads to crime & despair & a lot of wasted money trying to combat those problems. Do you not read the news or do you just not care about anyone that isn't a member of your country club?

10/3/2012 9:25:16 AM

Ryushikaze

@Robert.

No, it's 'Government saying you can't discriminate against someone due to their sexuality by denying them the right to marry a consenting person regardless of physical gender, GOOD' and 'Government saying you can't discriminate against someone due to their gender by giving them less wage for the same job as someone of a different gender, GOOD'

10/3/2012 9:42:58 AM

smartz

Way to pivot the question to make it seem YOU are the one being victimized. "Boo hoo, I have to pay taxes for living in America!" No shit, people pay taxes WHEREVER you live. You owe the government money for owning a piece of THEIR property and using THEIR services (police, firefighters, roads, etc). That being said, as women also work as hard as men, they should be paid equally so they can live their lives and pay their taxes properly like you!

10/3/2012 10:17:36 AM

Often Partisan

The problem with me taking a basic economivcs coutrse, is, well, that margianalist economics is complete nonsense. Capitalism harminses at full employment? Look at the history of capitalism. this is false. it also claims that the market is perfect, and themn wonders why it looks so foolish when the economic crisis around the corner ineviably occurs.

if capitalists could pay workers whatever they wanted they'd pay the lowest wage its physiologically possible to live on the only thing that prefents them doing this is the workers fighing back. look at the history of nineteenth century england.

10/3/2012 10:18:58 AM

anon

Women don't get paid less because everyone in the private sector hates them. Women get paid less because they take time off to raise and have children. We don't need the govt. to correct for that.

Edit: and if any of you actually took a basic economics course (god this site is just as fundie as what it's mocking) you'd know that the free market is not without inefficiency, failures, and deadweight loss. The govt. can and should step in to correct natural monopolistic pricing that arises from pure capitalism, and to correct social deficiencies (water manufacturers don't care if you die of dehydration because you're poor.) But women are paid less precisely because they produce less. They contribute less to the gdp, because they forego education and career advancement to take care of children. That is the free market working precisely as it should.

We had someone enter the company I work for on a govt. visa. She was doing the same job as everyone else, but the govt. mandated that she be paid the average wage of everyone in the company. Sounds good, except that the normal payment structure started at 40k, with a 5k raise every six months for 2 years. This is appropriate because as you learn on the job, you become more productive. Unfortunately, we had to pay her the same wage as people who had been working there a year. She proved not to be worth that extra wage, and was summarily fired.

10/3/2012 10:28:37 AM

Ludd

This guy is hilarious. Apparently he also thinks abortions can be performed on women that aren't pregnant. Where do they find these morons? Oh right, home 'schools'.

10/3/2012 10:36:09 AM

Robert

Also, it's funny no one sees their own hypocrisy when pointing out Akin's hypocrisy.

Government telling people who they can marry = BAD
Government telling people how much they can pay = GOOD

How about -

Government telling people what they can and cannot do = BAD

10/3/2012 10:44:57 AM

Dr. Razark

@anon
"Women get paid less because they take time off to raise and have children."

That's a reason not to pay them when they are not working. It's no excuse for paying them less when they are working. Aside from that, not every woman has children.

As for your story, it seems to have absolutely no relation to the fact that she was a woman being paid too much, and more to do with her being an employee being paid too much. It might have a point in a different discussion, but it has none here.

10/3/2012 10:48:15 AM

Mattiedef

@Anon

That's a research fallacy. True, there have been unweighted studies and most women tend to go into careers that are paid less (Teachers and social workers), not about raising families (That's just sexist, you prick). Though I'd say the fact Teachers and Social Workers, who's very purpose is to ensure the psychological health, physical health, and intelligence of our future should be one of the HIGHEST paid people in our system... which traditionally being female positions instead receive one of the least pay compared to most in similarly educated positions.

Secondly, in studies of JUST women in EQUIVALENT POSITIONS as men revealed a 72-86% discrepancy, depending on the exact position. Or they are denied advancement, like female professors have a much harder time gaining tenure compared to male professors. This is de facto sexism.

And I'm pretty sure the Government does nothing of the sort if said things are still true. Are you in the USA? It just disallows discrimination in employing people in certain positions. Usually they use the "You can negotiate for more" To make women get paid less since Women are traditionally taught to accept what's given to them.

Ugly, ugly circle of education, de facto sexism, and male domination already present. Realising that feminism still has a long way to go is a huge deal in modern society. Same with civil rights. De Facto racism still exists, even if De Jure racism and sexism are all but dead.

Todd Akin is a turd brained douche.

10/3/2012 10:59:16 AM

Berny

This kind of retarded doublethink would only make sense to a Republican. What else would you expect from the fuckwit who coined the phrase "legitimate rape"?

10/3/2012 11:01:00 AM

dfmfundies

I see the libertarian idiots are out in force today.

@ Robert:

So most people here think the government should be telling people what you pay and what you don't pay.

Got it.

I wonder how many of you have taken a course in basic economics.


I have. At the Wharton School, as a matter of fact.

Have you ever taken a course in basic reading? Because that's not what the Ledbetter Act says.

10/3/2012 11:52:26 AM

dp

"So most people here think the government should be telling people what you pay and what you don't pay."

i think it's more just that people thing an employee should get paid for their work, not their gender.

10/3/2012 12:21:33 PM

Meeeh

Akin:
So, the government sticking its nose into all kinds of things has gotten us into huge trouble.


And yet, you can't make the government and it's intrusion into peoples private lives big enough when it comes to abortion!

Make your peabrain up!

10/3/2012 12:35:03 PM

Sasha

Akin appears to believe in free enterprise over human rights. "Equal pay for equal work" is not a complicated concept.

@Robert, now that you've mastered basic economics, perhaps you should take a course in basic civics.

10/3/2012 12:51:01 PM

Osiris

What if that person only agrees to the salary because when they were being hired they had no idea that salary was lower than what a person of the opposite sex would be earning? And then what happens when that person finds out and demands their boss pay them the same as what the man who works the same job for the same number of hours makes? And what if the boss says no? Honestly are we at all surprised that Todd "Legitimate Rape" Atkin would opposed legislation designed to prevent earnings discrimination based on sex?

And finally Todd "Legitimate Rape" Atkin, (no I will not stop calling you that) what got us into trouble was the government going as completely hands off as possible and putting our entire financial infrastructure on the honor system. A financial infrastructure that all you Atlas Shrugged fanboys also believe should be motivated exclusively by greed.

@anon
When a woman applies for a job and you decided that she should earn less because she's just going to run off and raise a family in a few years THAT IS CALLED SEXUAL DESCRIMINATION! You really have no idea what that person is like and what her aspirations are, the only information you have is her sex, and using that alone to make a judgement about her is sexist. And you are promoting that kind of sexism in business. What if it turns out that she, like my girlfriend, doesn't want kids and wants to be a childless adult? Those women do exist.

This is why I propose we adopt something that Norway is doing and it works wonders. Namely when a couple has a baby both parties take maternity leave, at different times. This means that business can no longer discriminate, because everyone who wants to raise a child, regardless of gender has to take maternity leave. And it doesn't even have to be the woman who takes it first.

10/3/2012 1:27:09 PM

Mister Spak

@Robert:

"Also, it's funny no one sees their own hypocrisy when pointing out Akin's hypocrisy.

Government telling people who they can marry = BAD
Government telling people how much they can pay = GOOD

How about -

Government telling people what they can and cannot do = BAD "

How about -
Discrimination by sexual orientation = BAD
Discrimination by gender = BAD
Lack of reading comprehension = BAD

10/3/2012 1:36:21 PM

Osiris

@Mister Spak
So when the government tells me that I can't murder people in cold blood for no reason, that's wrong?

Look the government is about telling people what to do, because that's what rules and laws are all about. Deciding that the very act of a government bossing people around is inherently bad is retarded, why even have a government at all? Instead what we need to do is look at every issue individually and decide does allowing or not allowing this benefit our society. Telling people who they can and can't marry is bad for society because it is a promotion of discrimination. Telling people they have to pay everyone who works the same job the same pay regardless of gender, race, or sexual orientation is good for society because it removes discrimination.

10/3/2012 1:44:13 PM

motobreath

Akin is a nutjob, but I don't see how this is wrong? Hindsight reveals time and again you cant legislate morality, unless blatant misogyny is the cause of a women being paid less why should they start fucking with the system. It is nearly impossible to repeal an act, law, or gov agency once it goes into action, I don't see how this law would change anything for the better. I just dont see this comment as nutty, it's an area deserving legitimate debate!

10/3/2012 1:45:23 PM
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